Some questions

Montecuccoli · Post by **Montecuccoli** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:47 pm

Hi all!
This is my first visit to this Forum, so please, be patient!

More, English is not my first language, so please be very patient!

Well, here are some questions, coming from my very first testing of the rules.

1) Square: I suppose that infantry can form square even if it is not charged by cavalry. How long it takes to assume this formation?

2) Square: An infantry that is charged by cavalry test both to change to square and to test morale. Which test is carried before? (There is a +1 in the Morale table for infantry in square, so this is not a mere curiosity)

3) Square: does a "shaken" square count as "formed" (i.e. cavalry hit only with 6)?

4) Infantry fire and melee table: why there is a column for 4 stands? are not all units on 3 stands?

5) Dragoons: can they fire from the saddle? Maybe a1D6 per firing unit, so like achers...

6) Russian dragoons: I've found in the Poltava volume from Osprey that Russian dragoon regt in GNW had 4 squadron? Any information about it?

Thanks for all.

Luca

PS Clarence, thanks again, here I am at last...

hwiccee · Post by **hwiccee** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:20 am

Hi Luca,

Welcome to the forum and don't worry your english is excellent.

I am afraid I can't help you much with questions 1 to 5 as I don't use these rules. But I would just say that I would not worry too much about squares as they were not used much in this period.

On GNW Russian dragoons I can help though. The Russians dragoons started the war with 5 squadrons (10 companies). In 1704 they were supposed to reorganise into 4 squadrons (12 companies) but because of the war they never did. In 1712 they officially went back to 5 squadrons but in effect this was just a paper exercise as they already had 5 squadrons. So some people, including Osprey, get confused and think that they had 4 squadrons from 1704 to 1712. In reality they had 5 squadrons all the way through the war.

So in short the osprey Poltava book is wrong but they do get it correct, more or less, in the booklet on Russian cavalry.

Post by **barr7430** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:29 am

LUCA,

some answers for you in red
1) Square: I suppose that infantry can form square even if it is not charged by cavalry. How long it takes to assume this formation?
ONE TURN

2) Square: An infantry that is charged by cavalry test both to change to square and to test morale. Which test is carried before? (There is a +1 in the Morale table for infantry in square, so this is not a mere curiosity)
Infantry test for being charged first, if they pass they then have the choice to either try and form square OR stand and fire. The morale bonus for being in square would count on the following turn IF they were still under normal command ... that is, NOT SHAKEN or worse
3) Square: does a "shaken" square count as "formed" (i.e. cavalry hit only with 6)? NO

4) Infantry fire and melee table: why there is a column for 4 stands? are not all units on 3 stands?
YES but I included it in case some players actually played 1:5 scale games and built up larger units.. it is not a common usage aspect of the rules

5) Dragoons: can they fire from the saddle? Maybe a1D6 per firing unit, so like achers... NO, it was not a standard practice

Hope this is of help Luca

regards

Barry

Montecuccoli · Post by **Montecuccoli** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:19 pm

Thank you for all the answers.

Squares are quite a reliable formation vs cavalry. I always have low dice (and my opponent have high ones): so I cannot expect too much from my good luck...

So, Russian Dragoons Rgt on 4 (or 5) squadrons could be very effective with the All or nothing charge...

Thanmk you again,

Luca

hwiccee · Post by **hwiccee** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:21 pm

Luca: Just to clarify as I was not clear before. Russian dragoon regiments were 5 squadrons of 200 to 250 men in theory. In practice they were usually a lot smaller than this.

Barry: Do you have some evidence for the use of squares in this period?

Montecuccoli · Post by **Montecuccoli** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:40 pm

hwiccee wrote:Luca: Just to clarify as I was not clear before. Russian dragoon regiments were 5 squadrons of 200 to 250 men in theory. In practice they were usually a lot smaller than this.

Yes. And this means that , in a ratio of 1:35, a rgt of 800 men (a conservative but realistic number, I deem) is composed by 23-24 figg, i.e. 4 squadrons.

The question could be: do they operated alltogether or were detached also in different theatres of war? In Napoleonic wars, Russian cavalry rgt were really large, but often operated as detached squadrons...

hwiccee · Post by **hwiccee** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:10 am

Yes. And this means that , in a ratio of 1:35, a rgt of 800 men (a conservative but realistic number, I deem) is composed by 23-24 figg, i.e. 4 squadrons.

As yes I see

I have two sets of nubers for the size of the Rusian regiments at Poltava. One says that they varied between 427 and 992 men (this might be without officers, nco's, etc). The other says 694 to 1000 men.

The question could be: do they operated alltogether or were detached also in different theatres of war? In Napoleonic wars, Russian cavalry rgt were really large, but often operated as detached squadrons...

Regiments at this time were normally in the same army and fighting together. Although of course sometimes there would be detachments this was not common. The Swedish cavalry units were also very strong with units of 1000 to 1500 men were common (although again smaller in reality). These big Swedish units often fought as 2 or 3 cavalry 'battalions' of about 500 men. It is likely that the Russians did the same.

So your 4 squadrons of 6 figures could be organised into 2 'battalions' of 12 figures. But the 'battalions' would still be together and in the same brigade.

Post by **barr7430** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:26 am

I included the squares option in the rules with much reluctance. I had first seen it in a Marlburian set of rules many years before. I have not been able to find further substantive evidence anywhere else. In all my 18 years gaming in the period I can proudly boast of NEVER having attempted to form a square with any units!
Some BLB players seem to like it, so it stayed

hwiccee · Post by **hwiccee** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:51 am

Thanks Barry.

Montecuccoli · Post by **Montecuccoli** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:42 am

Thank you, hwiccee (I don't think is your real name... or not?)

Ciao,
Luca

hwiccee · Post by **hwiccee** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:05 am

No my real name is Nick

Hwiccee is the old name (circa 600 AD) for the place that I come from, part of Britain.

Montecuccoli · Post by **Montecuccoli** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:12 pm

OK, so, thank you, Nick....