Percentage moves and order markers

[Darkman]

Ok played our first game on monday and think that we got something wrong so just checking.
We rolled for the percentage number of units we could move and then allocated our order markers.
Now can we only allocate order markers to the percentage number of units we could move.

Basically if I could move 50% of my units does that include rallying, charging, and bluffs etc.

That was the way we played it. And it was ok even though I did spend a move where I could not rally anything.
I have a feeling we have got this wrong.

Thanks

[Churchill]

Hi Darkman,

Every unit gets a marker placed faced down on the table wether they are rally, move, hold, charge or form.That way your opponet never knows exactly which of your units are moving and which can't do anything.
For instance if after dicing you only get 50% of units moving, charging, rallying or reforming these must have a order marker and the other 50% have a hold or bluff marker.
Units with hold or bluff markers may still shoot, but cannot countercharge if themselves charged.
When playing we count artillery as a unit and odd percentages are always rounded down.
Next declare charges and then disclose markers.
Just don't dice and get a Plodder or you could find your units spending a lot of time halted.

Hope this helps............Ray.

[Darkman]

Thanks Churchill
That explains the defend markers, could not work out why we had them. Looks as though we might have to get some more though.
Looking in the rules section though it does say that you round up when working out how many units you can move.

Found it a bit confusing where it says you must attempt to rally retiring and routing units. Does this mean that you have to allocate rally markers to them first as part of your percentage before other unit markers.
i.e. I can move 50% of 10 units one of which is routing. So that unit must have a rally marker before I can allocate my 4 other good markers?

[obriendavid]

That's not how we play it and not the way it was played at our Malplaquet game. You only put out markers for the number of units you are able to activate and the bluff and defend orders are also meant for them.
Perhaps Barry can add more to this discussion when he returns from holiday.

Cheers
Dave

[Churchill]

Hello Chaps,

OK Barry will correct me if I'm wrong, but you have a number of ORDER markers and a number of BLUFF/DEFEND markers.
Providing what your Commanders Ability is and providing what you score on a D10 this gives you the percentage of units under your command which can move that turn.
I stand corrected Darkman you do round percentages up to give you the number of units which may have a ORDER marker.
All ORDER markers be they (Rally, Charge, Move or Form) are placed face down next to the units you wish to carry out these orders.
Your remaining units are without orders so to speak, but still receive a BLUFF/DEFEND marker.These units may still fire if the enemy are foolish enough to come into range and if charged may counter charge.They cannot move even to change formation as this would need a ORDER marker.
Dave I don't understand your responce to my post i.e. You only put out markers for the number of units you are able to activate and the bluff and defend markers are also meant for them.
So what your saying is they get two markers, this is not correct at all.
Every unit gets a marker be it a ORDER or BLUFF/DEFEND faced down this way your enemy can never be sure who's activated and who is not.
Logical Really...........Ray.

[obriendavid]

Ray, have a look at page four on the addendum under the section 'orders page 10' it explains there what the Bluff markers are for.

Hope this helps.
Dave

[Churchill]

Dave here is the exact copy of the addendum you have mentioned and I can only suggust you have misunderstood this section.

Orders Page 10
• The BLUFF marker is used (placed face down as ALL other markers should be before being revealed) to fool the enemy into thinking a unit may CHARGE.
This may force various premature cavalry charges, infantry going into square or similar.
When turned over it is in fact only a bluff and the unit makes NO move that turn.Used much in the same way a Poker bluff.
• EVADING is mentioned in the turn sequence but is an option open only to irregular eastern European cavalry.

So as stated in my last post all units receive either a ORDER marker or DEFEND/BLUFF marker as this keeps your enemy guessing who is activated and who is not.
If you only placed markers for those able to move wouldn't this give the game away somewhat???
May I enquire that in your "Malplaquet" game you had your units in brigades in which case for preliminary moves I suppose only the brigadiers would need a ORDER marker and all units in his command had to follow this order and this could be where the confusion has crept in about markers.

Regards...........Ray.

[Adam Hayes]

I can see your logic Ray but that's not how I read (and play) the rules. On page 10/11 it specifies which of the orders are limited by commander ability percentages: Move, Form & Charge. The other orders can be issued to any unit (including Bluff presumably.)

Adam

[Churchill]

Adam I can only suggest you've read (and play) the rules wrong.
On page 10/11 it does not specify which orders are limited by a commanders ability percentages.
The ORDER markers of which there are five (Move, Hold, Form, Rally and Charge) are placed face down next to the units you are able to give a order to.
All other units receive a BLUFF marker again placed face down next to the unit.
Once charges have been declared, all markers are turned face up and orders revealed.
Those units without orders e.g. with a BLUFF marker may only fire if a enemy comes into range.They may not move even to change formation as this would need a ORDER marker to Form.In a previous post I did say if charged they may counter charge, but I have re-read the order section and I'm wrong and they must receive the charge at the halt.
In large games as in David O'Brien's "Malplaquet" units are brigaded together and for preliminary moves at least only the brigadiers would need a ORDER marker which all units in his command would have to follow (this making the game run quicker).
Once the brigade came into charge reach the brigadiers would have to start using their initiative and start issuing individual unit orders.
I'd rather leave this now and wait until Barry returns from his holiday to comment.

Regards...........Ray.

[obriendavid]

Ray, Barry will be in touch when he comes back from holiday to clarify the situation but he has been in contact with me and agrees that you are playing the rules wrongly. As confirmed earlier it is only the percentage of units that a general has control of that get a command marker.

Cheers
Dave

[Adam Hayes]

Adam I can only suggest you've read (and play) the rules wrong.

Entirely possible I have a very short attention span.

[Darkman]

Well I have had a chance to take in what has been said.

If you only give order markers to the percentage of units that you can move, then what is the defend order marker for?

Just seemed a bit strange to have that and a bluff marker.

unless I have missed something

[obriendavid]

It explains on page 10 of the main rules under the order section what the defend order is for and as I explained in a previous posting, the bluff order is explained on the addendum.

Cheers
Dave

[Churchill]

Hello all,

Ray, Barry will be in touch when he comes back from holiday to clarify the situation but he has been in contact with me and agrees that you are playing the rules wrongly.

I look forward to Barry's reply to this thread, as for playing the rules wrongly, I think not!!!
I have owned a copy of the BLB rules since day 1 of publication along with other members of my wargames club and we play BLB on a regular basis.

As confirmed earlier it is only the percentage of units that a general has control of that get a command marker.

Dave by command marker I take it you mean a ORDER marker and I have never disagreed that it is only the percentage of units that a commander has control of that get a ORDER marker.
Here is a simply example - At the start of a game I have a commander with 20 units.I throw a average dice and score a 3 which results in my commander being Average.On turn one I now throw a D10 with the result being a 5 which gives me the ability to give 50% of my units a ORDER marker, this being either Move, Defend/Hold, Form, Rally or Charge.
The 50% category does not change as I have a Average commander.
I have 20 units so only 10 units receive a ORDER marker, but I do place a BLUFF marker on the other 10 units.
As all markers are placed face down your enemy commander can never be sure who is activated and who is not.
I hope this example is simple enough for everyone to understand.
Darkman the Defend ORDER is the same as the Hold ORDER and this is explained on Page 10 of the rules.
I suppose the Defend ORDER would be placed from the start if you wanted a unit to defend a position or fortifacation.Where as the Hold ORDER would be placed once the unit had moved and arrived at its position.

Cheers..............Ray.

[obriendavid]

I look forward to Barry's reply to this thread, as for playing the rules wrongly, I think not!!!
I have owned a copy of the BLB rules since day 1 of publication along with other members of my wargames club and we play BLB on a regular basis.

Ray, I have heard many reasons over my 30+ years of wargaming why someones understanding of the rules is the correct one but never because they bought the rules first.

The League of Gentlemen Wargamers have been using this command system for years with our Napoleonic rules so I recon I know what I'm talking about but it is obvious from your comments you're not going to beleive me so hopefully Barry will post a reply ASAP so that your thoughts don't confuse others. I happen to like your idea of placing markers for every unit so a Blind would probably be a good marker to use for this but it is not how the rules currently work.

This is my last post on the subject.
Dave