Stand and fire question.

Any questions relating to Beneath the Lily Banners rule system.
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Blackcat66
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Stand and fire question.

Post by Blackcat66 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:39 am

Hi,

I’m just hoping for a little clarification re “Stand and fire” procedure. Just to confirm,after rolling a D6 on the Stand/fire table and getting some hits on the charging unit,the chargers then test again to charge home,but do the chargers do this in their original position or at some point during the charge move?.

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Schomberg
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Re: Stand and fire question.

Post by Schomberg » Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:33 pm

Point 5 on page 116 in the Assault Rules section answered this question for me, though I can’t be sure I’m right. It seems that the level of fire received by the incoming troops on the Stand and Fire table determines where they stop. Ragged fire stops the attackers at long range and forces the Charge Home Test at that distance. Controlled Fire forces the Charge Home Test at Effective Range and Devastating Fire at Short Range. So that’ll be 12inches, 8 inches and 4 inches respectively. I would say if the attackers are already closer than the roll on the Stand and Fire table suggests, then the unit takes it’s test in the position where it commences the Charge.

I hope that made sense.
Blackcat66
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Re: Stand and fire question.

Post by Blackcat66 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:17 pm

Hi,

Thank you for the answer. I was kind of working on the premise that the range mods being quoted on the stand/fire table were to adjust the number of firing dice the defender could use for shooting.

I see what you’re saying about point 5,page 116 but is assaulting a built up area as that chapter describes,similar to charging home etc?. I ask that as page 71 says....

“Having established the effect of the fire,consult shooting chapters to determine casualties inflicted. This check establishes the effect of the defending units fire and NOT the range at which defensive fire is delivered”.

Hmm,I think I’m getting a headache.

Kind regards,Mike.
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Re: Stand and fire question.

Post by Schomberg » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:00 pm

Howdy,

Yeah, I think that it’s reasonable to draw similarities between the two situations for these purposes. I believe that your point from page 71 is to take into account that Foot only have a Charge distance of 5 inches and obviously Ragged and Controlled Fire cannot force a Charge home test at their respective distances of 12” and 8”. That’s why I suggest that charging troops already closer that the range band suggested by the Incoming Fire Die roll don’t move at all from their starting position.

Not perfect by any means but it works and hopefully Admin will pitch in at some point.
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flick40
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Re: Stand and fire question.

Post by flick40 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:17 am

The below is based on the horse being in range to charge with no wheel etc

The horse declare a charge on a unit of foot and pass morale to do so
The unit of foot checks morale for being charged and pass
The foot roll on the stand and fire table, then issue fire based on the result
The horse check morale to charge home, pass and move to contact

The horse make no movement until all morale checks, firing and final morale check is made. The stand and fire ranges are only representative of officer control and the men's intestinal fortitude firing on a mass of angry men and thundering horse flesh.

That said you can do what feels right for your group. I move the horse 3" forward as soon as the foot pass morale. This represents some forward momentum of the charge in the time it takes the men to raise and fire their muskets.
"Is that your opinion or the game masters ruling?"
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Re: Stand and fire question.

Post by Schomberg » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:41 am

I get what you are saying here. It just seems a little odd when the charge distance of Horse could start at anything up to 16” away and the extreme range of a Musket armed battalion is only 12”. I quite like the idea of the musketeers holding their nerve to deliver a devastating close range volley that stops the onrushing Horsemen in their tracks(or not) a mere 4” from their foes. 🙂
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Re: Stand and fire question.

Post by Schomberg » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:45 am

Of course, I may be exhibiting slight bias towards this particular interpretation as it has the potential to be of benefit to my Enniskilleners. Devastating volley with horse stopped dead at 4” followed by (no order required) charge in the following round. ⚔️


One can but dream......🙂
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Re: Stand and fire question.

Post by barr7430 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:46 pm

Joe has that rare talent for being both eloquent and to the point simultaneously!

I see where you are going there Schomberg with your Enniskilleners!

The stand and fire check effectiveness is not range based but as Joe describes it 'intestinal'. Are the men grim, calm and determined or neurotic, nervous and jumping at shadows. It does have distinct parallels with the range distances and I would not be averse to chargers moving to the equivalent range bands ie ragged - 12 devastating - 4 and then checking. Having the check done by infantry before the charge starts as their charge range(except for Tribal,Loose order, Swedes) is 5 inches, is logical. Horse can theoretically start charging beyond musket range. Logic dictates that they would have to be within musket range to take losses thus compelling the check in the first instance. Going by the habits my gaming group have adopted over the years, the troops usually move into the range band and without getting a sore bum by sitting on the fence, as in all such situations if you feel strongly as a group to go one way or the other, do so.
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