ROUT/RETREAT moves

John Michael · Post by **John Michael** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:00 pm

So the cacadores are charging the ligne, they pass all their RESOLVE tests, the ligne however end with a ROUT on their Fight or Flight check.

So the cacadores started their charge just outside of 3", they are in AC so move 14", the ligne get a 13" ROUT move.

Are the rules actually saying that you reverse the facing of the ligne by 180 degrees. The cacadores assume the position of the ligne (is this distance included in the charge move) Who moves their 25% first (I suppose it has to be the ligne) , do they actually move 0.25x14= 3.5" or 0.25x13=3.25". And they do this 4 times to see if anyone makes contact?

This does seem a little complicated if I have it right, so I wanted to check.

Thanks,

John

Post by **barr7430** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:26 am

John Don't quite understand your maths 0.25 x 1..

but essentially the Ligne turn away (as a routing unit is not likely to run in reverse.. ie run away whilst still facing forward)
The Pursuit / rout is done in 1/4 moves of the total so:

1. Ligne go 1/4 of 13 followed by Cacadores 1/4 of 14.
It is clear that becasue of the initial separation distance of 3 inches that the pursuers will not catch up even at this stage.
The Cacadores can take a test for a no contact charge and try to stop before they exceed normal move distance and preserve their order..

What is the complicated bit?

John Michael · Post by **John Michael** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:53 am

Thanks Barry. I believe my maths are the same as yours, but I use 0.25 rather than 1/4 (both being 25%). By complicated, I mean a lot of small scale measuring ie. do you round or actually measure 0.5 and 0.25 inch increments. It does seem a little fussy.

I am trying to visualise a situation where they would actually catch someone, the rout moves are 10"+D6. So the defender throws a 1 and get an 11" ROUT move and if the attacker starts at just outside 3" so has 11" extra to move. So in no cases does it appear that it is likely that someone would be caught in Fight or Flight test as this is the best case scenario.

I just have a feeling I am missing something as I can not see what is the benefit of incremental movement. I hope I am not being too thick.

I missed the no contact test.

Thanks for looking,

John

quindia · Post by **quindia** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:37 am

Posted this on Clash of Empires, but for the benefit of those on this forum, here it is again (Barry, correct me if I'm wrong)...

Ok, John, the quarter move is basically a mechanic to see where the attack ends up! If the chargers are infantry and more than the minimum distance of three inces, you probably don't even have to worry about it. For example, a charger that starts ten inches away will not catch a unit that routs even the minimum distance of eleven inches!

Here's a pic...

Blue starts 3 inches away from red, successfully completes the charge sequence and causes red to rout! Red rolls a D6 and gets a "2", meaning red will rout 12 inches (rout moves are 10+1D6 inches). Movement now comences in quarter moves... red moves 3 inches (1/4 of 12")... blue moves 3.5" (1/4 of 14", the charge move in Column of Attack)... they continue to alternate... you will see that blue catches red on the last quarter move. Red will be dispersed and removed from the table. Blue will be jubiliant, but disordered, as after any melee. If Red had rolled a three on it's rout move, blur could not have caught them... thus my note that you can probably ignore the quarter move in infantry vs infantry unless the ideal condition I illustrated above exists.

However, lets say a shiny new unit of Perry Dragoons (I can't wait to get these model) charges an infantry unit that is in the Duke of Orange's command, has failed to form square, and routs, again rolling a "2" for the sake of easy math! The dragoons have a chrage move of 36 inches and were twelve inches away when they charged. The infantry moves 1/4 speed or 3 inches. The dragoons move 1/4 speed of 9 inches and are now only 6 inches behind (12+3-9=6). The infantry moves their second 1/4 move, but the dragoons will catch them at the end of the second 'quarter' (6+3-9=0... end of the infantry). The cavalry are disordered and end up six inches behind the original position of the infantry. Had the infantry rolled higher on their rout die, they would have lived to totter on another quarter move, but still would likely have been caught. However, depending on the situation, the cavalry may try to pull up and let the infantry go rather than ending up disordered in a bad tactical position (i.e. in charge range of the enemy heavy cavalry loitering in reserve).

Again, the quarter move is primarily a mechanic to determine where chargers end their move. You can always simply the process with an abstraction - infantry that will contact routing infantry end their move where the router did (likewise cavalry vs cavalry) and cavalry running down infantry end their move at 50% of the infantry's rout move... or something like that!

Hope this helps!

John Michael · Post by **John Michael** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:54 am

Great illustration and explanation. It would be nice if there was an errata of illustrations as you have been doing Clarence.

Many thanks,

John

ps hope to finish the game tomorrow.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:13 am

Clarence,

I find Your way to explain such things admirable

and it shows me once and for all you are using your computer for other things than work too

Günter

quindia · Post by **quindia** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:26 am

Thanks, guys - Barry may need to check my work to make these things 'official' but I'll be happy to post diagrams for concepts people have questions with...

I may make a graphic FAQ a series in my blog, but for now I really have my hands full. If anyone has questions that need illustration, feel free to post them on the forum and I will try to come up with diagrams ASAP.

Darkman · Post by **Darkman** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:14 pm

Okay I have looked at the example and worked it out as well as putting units on the table and still cannot work out how a unit that is 3 inches away from a unit at the start and then routs 12 inches can be caught by some one who moves 14 inches. Unless the pursuers move first.

The only way they will catch them is if they had rolled a one.

quindia · Post by **quindia** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:38 am

Movement is measured from the front of the unit (just as if it moved forward) so the routing unit actually looses it's base depth on the first quarter move. At the end of the fourth quarter move, the attacker need only contact the rear of the unit so the formations, so base depth matters then as well...

Darkman · Post by **Darkman** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:55 am

Okay that makes sense now.

Thanks for that.