paying for single unit actions

footslogger · Post by **footslogger** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:47 am

OK. I can believe that. In the single unit actions it says you have to pay for the units to charge.

Second situation. Previous turn. Same group but not in charge reach. Under advance orders. I paid 3MPs to maintain their advance orders. I want to move all three battalions forward. Do I have to pay for single unit actions for each of those units to move?

quindia · Post by **quindia** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:55 am

No, normal movement is part of the Advance order. In fact, under Advance orders, you MUST move at least half of the units in the brigade.

footslogger · Post by **footslogger** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:36 pm

OK. Thanks.

I used these two examples because I was pretty sure I knew the answer as you guys have supplied. But I don't know in general how to get to that answer. In the first case, I MUST charge (it's in the MUST table for attack orders) AND I have to pay extra for the single unit actions to do so. In the second case I MUST move (it's in the MUST table for advance orders) AND I don't have to pay extra for single unit actions to do so.

I think the tables need a list of when you have to pay extra for single unit actions that are actions listed in the MUST table.

This system of orders and maneuver points is the most appealing part of the rules, but I'm not at all confident I'm able to get it right.

I have more questions, but that is my first point. Is there a way to get this clarified, or is there a paragraph in the rules that describes those circumstances that I'm not reading?

Thanks.

Juan Mancheño · Post by **Juan Mancheño** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:17 am

Hello.
I´m spanish and, for me, some points of the rulebook are a bit complex to understand, and not only for the language, but it is a question to read carefully until the illumination arrives.

I understand that:

1.- Brigade Orders cost MP and all the units in the Brigade can do an action with this "price".
2.- The Brigade can do additional actions using the Explotation and paying additional MP for every unit making this Explotation.
3.- The units of the Brigade can make individual additional actions paying additional MP (taking in care the order of the Brigade).
4.- The Charge is an additional action that cost additional MP.
5.- A Brigade, and its units, can do a lot of actions in a turn, to the limit of MP.

Is it correct?

footslogger · Post by **footslogger** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:51 pm

Hi Juan,

this is the way I read it as well. I just have trouble figuring out which actions are included and which are extra....

Regards,
Phil

obriendavid · Post by **obriendavid** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:09 pm

Juan Mancheño wrote:Hello.
I´m spanish and, for me, some points of the rulebook are a bit complex to understand, and not only for the language, but it is a question to read carefully until the illumination arrives.

I understand that:
2.- The Brigade can do additional actions using the Explotation and paying additional MP for every unit making this Explotation.
Is it correct?

Juan, the second point you made is not quite correct.
If you wish to make an exploitation move you only pay for the Brigade orders again plus an extra MP because it is the 2nd time you are asking the Brigade to do something. All the units in the Brigade move under the Brigade order there is no need to pay points for every unit.
If you wish to make a 3rd exploitation move you pay for the Brigade orders again plus an extra 2 MP's and all the units in the Brigade can move again free of charge.

Hope this clarifies things?
Cheers
Dave

Juan Mancheño · Post by **Juan Mancheño** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:42 pm

Ahhh. I was not sure about this point... too many MPs. Thank you.

During the siesta (that spanish pleasure we taught all the world) I have been reading the orders section of the rulebook and I think that page 50 contains both the proof of the complexity of this subject (everyone is activating and spending MPs) and the solution, with the summary of the phase.
In my opinion, it can be complex or confusing because I can not find, in the Orders section, only one and "lineal" explanation of the concept. It is difficult for me to explain this, excuse me. I read about Brigade orders that activate, once, their units... but it is possible to activate against the Brigade... and it is possible to activate against the units of the Brigade... and it is possible to mix this order of activation (orders for Brigade/orders for units/order for Brigade). The problem is that I am not sure about how to use my MP, too many options!

As I said, this is a question to read carefully the rulebook.

Thnak you all of you for your patience.

Regards,
Juan

obriendavid · Post by **obriendavid** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:17 am

Juan Mancheño wrote: In my opinion, it can be complex or confusing because I can not find, in the Orders section, only one and "lineal" explanation of the concept. It is difficult for me to explain this, excuse me. I read about Brigade orders that activate, once, their units... but it is possible to activate against the Brigade... and it is possible to activate against the units of the Brigade... and it is possible to mix this order of activation (orders for Brigade/orders for units/order for Brigade). The problem is that I am not sure about how to use my MP, too many options!

Juan, giving you an example of using MP's might help.
A division commander has two seasoned brigades and rolls two average dice for MP's and rolls 3 and 5 giving a total of 8 and he has been ordered to take and hold a hill.
All his brigades are on advance orders which costs 2 MP's each so he uses 4 MP's and the brigades make their first move. He decides to exploit with one Brigade which costs another 2 MP's plus an extra 1 because it is their second move, they move again towards the hill and the Division commander now only has 1 MP left. This is not enough to move a brigade and he is just short of the hill so he can now use this spare MP to move one drilled or Vet/Guard unit to make a single unit action to move again and occupy the hill.

I hope this explains it better for you?
If you have any other queries just get in touch and I will try to help.
Cheers
Dave

Juan Mancheño · Post by **Juan Mancheño** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:15 pm

Now, this point is "crystal clear" for me; thank you, Dave.

I think I need to play my first battle (well, only with the bases of the units at the moment!!) and see all of this "in movement".

Cheers
Juan

obriendavid · Post by **obriendavid** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:10 pm

Juan Mancheño wrote: I think I need to play my first battle (well, only with the bases of the units at the moment!!) and see all of this "in movement". Cheers Juan

Juan, that's actually a great idea for people to get the hang of the rules while they are painting up their armies, it's how I started to get into DBA and quickly picked up the system which inspired me to get the armies painted even sooner.

Cheers
Dave

CoffinDodger · Post by **CoffinDodger** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:47 pm

Juan,

I actually sat down at the kitchen table with this rulebook and a set of dominoes. That's how I learn any new set of rules.

Jim

Juan Mancheño · Post by **Juan Mancheño** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:36 am

Good idea; I´m going to test, besides my understanding of the rulebook, the configuration of the units. I can not afford those big units of the book; actually I´m painting big zulu and sudanese units and I have not more time (nor space on the table), so my idea is to have units of 24 figures for the Infantry and 12 for the Cavalry, and I would like to see how they work.

Half of this size is the standard of the units some of my friends are collecting for our Napoleonic Project in the Club, and, adding two units, it will be possible for us to use our collections with "Revolution to Empire" (my objetive, the other ruleset I don´t like!).

Cheers,
Juan

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:16 pm

After this being brought up on the TMP forum I have a further question.

Attack orders. A battalion with attack orders who begin the turn within charge range will charge without requiring a single unit action. Right? The chart for Attack orders lists charging as a must, and in the header of the must column, it states that these actions are covered by the MPs spent on the order.

obriendavid · Post by **obriendavid** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:37 pm

Tyler, the unit must charge if it is in charge reach and the Brigade has attack orders and apart from paying for the Brigade orders you still have to pay MP's for any units to charge or charge in support. The cost per unit is listed in table for single unit actions.
Cheers
Dave

Post by **barr7430** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:59 pm

I suppose the only further qualifying statement I could have inserted there was..
'must charge IF MPs are available this turn'. Dave is correct ALL individual unit actions apart form the movement allowed under Brigade orders must be paid for under Single Unit Actions.

This may simply answer Footslogger's outstanding queries?