Form orders: I'm missing something

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Form orders: I'm missing something

Post by Coyote » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:52 pm

Can a unit which forms do anything else in that turn. The example for Single Unit Activations has this happening. It changes formation, moves, changes formation again and then moves again.

However, the Form order says the unit does nothing for that move except form, and then says that units under form orders cannot make multiple activations at individual and brigade level.

These seem to contradict. Am I missing something in the reading of the rules? Although I could see how saying it can do nothing for that move may mean when making a single unit activation to change formation is cannot also move, requiring another single unit activation after forming.

However, the last part of the section seems to say it can do nothing but form on that turn.
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Post by obriendavid » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:52 am

Tyler, you are correct in saying that a unit that changes formation can do nothing for the rest of that move but you can move with them first to get them into position then change formation.

The reason behind the rule was to get over how time consuming and complicated it actually was to change formation even for troops that trained to perform these manoueveres and also to get people to actually get into correct formations well away from enemy units so that you have time to reacte to them. It's interesting reading eyewitness accounts of even trying to get a battalion over a wall and to form up on the other side especially if the unit hits the wall at an angle which ends up with different companies and platoons within companies are all having to peform different actions just to get over and form up on the other side.

From personal experience out shooting it's amazing how difficult it is to maintain a straight line in a walking in shoot once you start to get into difficult cover. Every few minutes you have to straighten out the line as the outside guns have a tendancy to gravitate towards the centre.
Another interesting thing is to watch reenactors and see how much chaos can be caused by one tree in their line of march and that's without someone actually trying to kill them. We had a game many years ago down at my friends house and another gamer was moaning about how long it took for his troops to cross an obstacle so we gave him Aly's Chassepot rifle with the bayonet attached then put a couple of bags over his shoulder and asked him to cross the hedge into the garden and try and get in the window. After much hilarity we eventually unhooked him from the hedge where he was hanging like a scarecrow and in a real life situation he would have been a sitting duck and if he had been part of a unit they would have been in complete disorder.

This is a bit long winded but hope it gets over the reason for the rule?

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Post by barr7430 » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:08 am

Nice story Dave :lol:

who was the unlucky man?

Tyler.. please give me some page references and I'll check out the contradictions too..

thanks

B
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Post by obriendavid » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:57 am

barr7430 wrote:Nice story Dave :lol:
who was the unlucky man?
I can't remember his name he was a mate of Aly's and I think he used to work as a caster for Foundry but I think he's no longer with us.

It's very interesting when you start handling actual weapons and realise how heavy and clumsy they actually are. Aly also has a Madsen light machine gun but when you lift this weapon, light is not a description I would make of it, and that's without any ammo in it so nobody would be running about firing it one handed Rambo fashion.

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Post by Coyote » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:09 pm

pg 44.
In the italic example for Single Unit actions the unit changes formation, moves forward as part of a brigade action, then changes formation again. It is also stated that they could move again if they paid the additional MP.

The beginning of the AAR could also be read both ways, where one battalion of a brigade forms, then the rest move under the description of "the brigade moves forward under it's advance order"
In this case it could also be read that the battalion which formed didn't move forward under the advance order.

The same page gives the form order where it says units cannot make multiple activations. To me this says that a unit which forms cannot do anything else in the same turn, including having moved previously.
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Post by Captain Chook » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:01 pm

We had been playing that form from disorder meant no other movement was allowed, but form to another formation didn't prevent multiple activations of that unit.
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Post by barr7430 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:50 pm

Going on holiday at 0400 tomorrow.. will answer the post in detail with a pink gin in hand sometime this week :wink:
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Post by barr7430 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:40 pm

Tyler the offending clause on P44 is a misprint. It should have come out.
I will print a fuller explanation when I am back.

Multiple actions are possible for a unit FORMING as a single unit action
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Post by Captain Chook » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:40 pm

Barry, is the full answer on its way??? :D
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