Cavalry versus Squares

[obriendavid]

Following on from our previous weekend games and display games at shows I have been concerned that cavalry once launched into attack, especially against squares are either successful (extremely unlikely) or are destroyed (very likely). This seemed too drastic from what I thought I had read before so going back over my reference books I found that it was often the case that finding their attack unsuccessful the cavalry would attempt to pull back, reform and attack later but it seemed to be only better quality troops that were able to do this.

The rules currently allow charging cavalry to attempt to reign in their charge before contact but if they fail the combat is fought until one side breaks, which is usually the cavalry and they are useless for the rest of the battle. I have suggested to Barry that after one bound of combat cavalry can attempt to pull back using the same mechanism as reigning in a charge and we have thought about adding this as an amendment but wondered what others think of this idea?

All comments welcome!
Cheers
Dave

[18th Century Guy]

I like the idea. I don't feel cavalry should be forced into a combat from which there is no return. The cavalry can use its one biggest advantage, mobility and get away from the infantry in square. Now what their condition is after this combat I cannot say but they should be able to withdrawl out of combat from a square.

[Churchill]

Ray.

[obriendavid]

Ray, the amendment, if we adopt it would be for all cavalry to be able to test to pull out of combat but because they would be disordered, have casualties and also have a minus 2 on their test I can only see quality cavalry being able to achieve a result. Certainly in the references I've read it generally seems to be Guard or Veteran cavalry that seem to be pulling back.

I thought you would like this rule.

Cheers
Dave

[flick40]

I agree that cavalry should be able to do so. The charge would be constanty in motion vs squares. The horse would charge some refusing, others flowing around looking for a weakness to exploit and others dying on contact, their riders slain. It would be either successful or failed very quickly. The remaining horse would fall back to reform what was left and decide, "hmm do we try again"?

Joe

[barr7430]

I don't mind an amendment on this but would also reiterate that the whole
charging - forming square sequence is a gamble and that is the reason it works as it does currently.
If cavalry hit the square whilst forming it is, in the words of Le Tog... TOAST.

If they hit after forming.. the toast is burnt on the other side

The 'testers' will have to :
1. Roll high
2. Be of good quality
3. Fresh with few losses in first bound
4. Probably supported
5. Have a brigadier or better with them.

I think it may save 1 in 5 situations max but, we'll see what other players have to say.

[obriendavid]

We could try the alternative rule out at our game on the 7th and see if it adds anything extra to the game.
Cheers
Dave

[barr7430]

Yup and I know a few chaps who might be stupid er brave enough to try it out!

[obriendavid]

Where's Le Tog and his cuirassiers when you need them

Cheers
Dave

[CoffinDodger]

Gentlefolk,

I honestly see nothing wrong with the rules on this as they stand. Cavalry charging a formed square were usually disordered beyond recognition and the rout result reflects the time they would take to recover... if at all.

Jim

[toggy]

obriendavid wrote :

'Where's Le Tog and his cuirassiers when you need them'

I don't know what you chaps are referring to, I'm always extremely cautious
and well balanced in my use of cavalry.

[PaulMc]

Indeed you are, until you spot a redoubt!

[davidsharpe]

Hello

Cavalry charging infantry in square, never, hardly ever, contact the infantry.
It happenend at Garcia Hernandez in 1812 by chance because a wounded horse from KGL heavy dragoons was shot just a few spaces from the square and fell on it, opening a breach where other dragoons entered inside the square, leading to the utterly destruction of the french batallion.
But most of the time, if not all, the cavalry evades contact by galloping right and left, allowing some square faces to fire an ineffective sporadic fires.

At Waterloo French cavalry would have been destroyed in just one charge if using RTE rules.
Historically after many "charges" two hours later, french cavalry regiments were just half strength.

It s fire which kills cavalry, never, hardly ever, close combat with infantry bayonets.
When there is a contact, it means cavalry penetrates the infantry formation and destroy it with few losses for cavalry.

So cavalry towards infantry has a two possibilities:
no contact or infantry destruction if contact.
But infantry fires can attrition cavalry, and multiples charges blown horses.

So in games, cavalry should be able to charge squares or infantry trying to form squares without being impaled on it.
And there should be a little chance the square could be penetrated, if not no players would charge it.

[barr7430]

David,

I think you are slightly missing the point of the rule. Literal interpretation is NOT intended. The charge simulates moving to contact. The horses are not being bayoneted, they are not forcing themselves onto the infantry. The heavy casualties represent losses from close range shooting in a prolonged situation facing the formed square. The 'wiping out' of the cavlary is as stated in previous posts a measure of their evaporating effectiveness as cohesive fighting formations. Yes they French cavalry 'swirled around' for a few hours at Waterloo but after that phase of the battle they were 'spent' totally and of no further value. That is what is being simulated when cavalry charge a formed square in R2E, not massacre.

Hope this helps

B

[Gerryjd]

Ermm.... we tried charging the square with Brigadier and Div Commander attached one to each regiment and lost both!!!!!! And that was with good quality cavalry. And with no losses on the way in and they were supported. So we had four out of five points in our favour and still got toasted!!!! I think the only hope is to pray to the dice gods and roll high in the first round!!!

Gerry