Questions and queries from the test game.

Questions, chat, feedback and developments relating to REPUBLIC TO EMPIRE... Wargaming the wars of Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Questions and queries from the test game.

Post by Scruff » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:20 am

Finally got to play a solo test game to get a bit of a handle on some of the rules while people are away enjoying their holidays.

The game was on a 8x4 foot table and have decided already that the table needs some more depth as a retreat or rout will send you off the table with out a chance to recover, and with a bit of luck on the first turn, you can pin half the other sides army towards their baseline/start lines causing the above to happen with a couple exploitation moves.

The forces used were the French and Russian divisions from the rule book example forces and upon setup went ooo the French are in for a torrid time ... which they were but managed to claw back a victory when a rout cascade rippled through the recruits.

Upon reading the rules afterwards managed to answer a couple of questions i had and found out a few things that i did wrong, including exploitation which is by the brigade, not individual units.

On to some questions,

a. Line of sight, do your own troops block LoS?

b. If a unit retreats off the board, would it cause a resolve test since its not coming back? Im guessing no.

c. Defend orders, When on advance orders you switch to defend when you get within charge reach, Defend says you can only move if you are within the 9" distance from the area. Can units of that brigade that were following the lead units but are outside of the 9" move as a single unit move since under Defend orders it appears to say no movement unless within 9".

d. It appears that, unless I missed something, no one cares if cavalry routs when it comes to resolve tests?

e. In a melee, what happens if theres a draw and both sides drop below 50% at the same time? Both sides roll resolve or just the loser? I'm guessing both roll and potentially both rout at same time.

I spent a bit of time scratching the head abit over how much movement a formation change takes up until I worked out it takes it all with a single unit form move.

f. Snap fire, it says if you had previously fire this game turn, as in you fired in player 1 go, the player 2 charged you, and you stood and fired again is a snap shot.
But it seems if you were player 2 you gain an advantage as in the above case, player 2 fired in firing phase and then player 1 attacked next turn he gets to fire at full instead of a Snap fire as he hasn't fired this new game turn? Hmmm does that makes sense to what I'm trying to get at?

All in all an interesting game that wasn't over til its over so to speak, one of the more notable actions was the heroic deeds of a unit of Russian recruits that survived seeing a much more experienced unit run away from beside it, when a French unit said BOO (declared a charge on it) and then switched into line from att column to cover the gap and saw the Frenchie retreat, was then promptly charged by a unit of Chasseurs and never had time to form a square, shot doing 1 casualty which the Chasseurs shrugged off, little did they know heheh, they fought 3 rounds of combat before the cavalry hit 50% and then failed their resolve and routed 40" off the table. Sadly for the Russians thou, the entire other end of the line dissapeared in a snowballing rout fest through a series of disordered/wavering and/or recruit units and a whole brigade ran along with a unit of the next brigade. That left a battery of guns pointing the wrong way and a battalion of infantry to try stop the bulk of the French.

I guess one thought that came to me while working through that Cav vs Inf fight was it appears that Inf has a good chance vs Cav if they aren't in square, unless i'm missing some negatives.

Ive seen enough of the rules to go yes, these need to be played some more so thats a good thing :)

Oh and is there anywhere I can get another quick reference sheet to either print out or buy?

cheers
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Re: Questions and queries from the test game.

Post by kiwipeterh » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:41 am

Scruff wrote:Oh and is there anywhere I can get another quick reference sheet to either print out or buy?
A good question. After multiple refoldings mine has decided that it wants to be a multi-piece quick reference sheet.

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Post by barr7430 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:45 pm

Glad to hear it SCRUFF... keep going with them you'll be much more comfy 2nd time thro'

Answers..


a. Line of sight, do your own troops block LoS?
YES THEY DO
b. If a unit retreats off the board, would it cause a resolve test since its not coming back? Im guessing no.
RETREATS do not cause Resolve Checks.. ROUTS do. If you meant ROUT then yes units that would be within 12 inches of it's point of rout(not finishing position) take the Resolve Check
c. Defend orders, When on advance orders you switch to defend when you get within charge reach, Defend says you can only move if you are within the 9" distance from the area. Can units of that brigade that were following the lead units but are outside of the 9" move as a single unit move since under Defend orders it appears to say no movement unless within 9".
YES

d. It appears that, unless I missed something, no one cares if cavalry routs when it comes to resolve tests?
BECAUSE very often it was difficult to understand what cavalry were actually doing! Retreating? Routing? Pursuing? Reforming? So you are correct.. everybody ignores them!
e. In a melee, what happens if theres a draw and both sides drop below 50% at the same time? Both sides roll resolve or just the loser? I'm guessing both roll and potentially both rout at same time.

I spent a bit of time scratching the head abit over how much movement a formation change takes up until I worked out it takes it all with a single unit form move.
That was why I did it that way to remove the brain ache!

f. Snap fire, it says if you had previously fire this game turn, as in you fired in player 1 go, the player 2 charged you, and you stood and fired again is a snap shot.
But it seems if you were player 2 you gain an advantage as in the above case, player 2 fired in firing phase and then player 1 attacked next turn he gets to fire at full instead of a Snap fire as he hasn't fired this new game turn? Hmmm does that makes sense to what I'm trying to get at?

Don't quite understand the question. Snap fire should not disadvantage anyone. It is simulating a unit firing 'out of sequence' ie twice in the same turn (own phase and enemy phase). If you rephrase it I might be able to help you

All in all an interesting game that wasn't over til its over so to speak, one of the more notable actions was the heroic deeds of a unit of Russian recruits that survived seeing a much more experienced unit run away from beside it, when a French unit said BOO (declared a charge on it) and then switched into line from att column to cover the gap and saw the Frenchie retreat, was then promptly charged by a unit of Chasseurs and never had time to form a square, shot doing 1 casualty which the Chasseurs shrugged off, little did they know heheh, they fought 3 rounds of combat before the cavalry hit 50% and then failed their resolve and routed 40" off the table. Sadly for the Russians thou, the entire other end of the line dissapeared in a snowballing rout fest through a series of disordered/wavering and/or recruit units and a whole brigade ran along with a unit of the next brigade. That left a battery of guns pointing the wrong way and a battalion of infantry to try stop the bulk of the French.

I guess one thought that came to me while working through that Cav vs Inf fight was it appears that Inf has a good chance vs Cav if they aren't in square, unless i'm missing some negatives.

Probably a Reasonable chance is more accurate but when you are a 24 model unit of Veteran Cuirassiers hitting a 36 model infantry unit which is wavering because its volley failed to stop the charge you are looking at a differential of
17 combat dice versus 5-7 most. You'd have to be very unlucky with the dice to lose that one as the Cuirassier General.. most often the infantry bottle it and run before the charge hits and thus get Trampled Underfoot (to quote Robert Plant!)


With regard to additional playsheets. Will be happy to sell to owners of the rules. We'll probably have you on record for that unless you got them at a show. Can do that via private mails

Cheers

B
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Post by Scruff » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:23 pm

Thank you for that Barry,

Ill try rephrase what I was trying to get at with the snap shot question.

As I follow it,

Turn 1
Player 1 shoots in shooting
Player 2 charges player 1 and player 1 fires as a snap shot as hes already fired this turn

all nice and clear on that side, but i'm coming from the reverse

turn 1
player 1 does what ever
player 2 shoots in shooting

turn 2
player 1 charges and player 2 shoots. Now since this is a new game turn player 2 fires at full effect, even thou he just fired in the previous phase.

What appears to me is in the 1st case the charger takes a full shot (provided the future charger is in range) and a snap shot, while in the 2nd case the charger takes 2 full shots

does that make abit more sense to where I'm coming from?

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Post by barr7430 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:13 am

Yes thanks Scruff.. clearer. In that case it is just the 'breaks' with Initative based alternate turns. I have never been precious about my rules and if gamers want to modify anything then I don't have a problem with it. Sometimes situations when judged in isolation can appear unfair or punitive but I tend to try and judge over the longer term and most things even themselves out.
I remember an incident in a recent game when a fairly experienced R2E gamer was the 'victim' of a train of events which he found quite hard to take despite being really happy with the rules in several games before. I suspect his negative reaction was more a symptom of total engagment with the scenario and his desire to bring off a spectucular wargames coup being thwarted than any real objection to the events which actually were quite logical..

Isolated and and vulnerable battalion which had lost all of its brigade mates looks like easy prey to a marauding regiment of experienced cavalry. Cavalry charge.. odds say that the infantry should run but against the odds they rallied from a WAVER state, delivered a nice volley which routed the charging cavalry... can happen, has happened, made the infantry commander's chest swell about two feet and made the cavalry commander sag like an airbed punctured by a cigar!

That's wargming in my experience.. hope the ramblings were not too tortuous! :roll:
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Post by Scruff » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:02 am

I thought is was like that, but asked as I'm sure someone in the group will ask me lol. The other thing to remember is even thou he gets to shoot defensively in player 1 charge, I'll need to remember that player 2 unit can not fire again in his go that turn, provided he survives the combat

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Post by obriendavid » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:53 am

barr7430 wrote: I remember an incident in a recent game when a fairly experienced R2E gamer was the 'victim' of a train of events which he found quite hard to take despite being really happy with the rules in several games before. Isolated and and vulnerable battalion which had lost all of its brigade mates looks like easy prey to a marauding regiment of experienced cavalry. Cavalry charge.. odds say that the infantry should run but against the odds they rallied from a WAVER state, delivered a nice volley which routed the charging cavalry... can happen, has happened, made the infantry commander's chest swell about two feet and made the cavalry commander sag like an airbed punctured by a cigar!
Poor General Le Togg still hasn't recovered from the ignominy especially as it was a Landwehr unit he was charging. :lol:
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Post by toggy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:55 pm

Thanks Barry,

I have just had my last session with the shrink, and now you've mentioned the cause of my mental instability again, may get over it before Borodino, just in time to renew aquaintances with those pesky priests.

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Post by barr7430 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:51 pm

BOB. I KEPT IT ANONYMOUS :shock: :shock: :shock: to protect your sensibilities!! Trust the Peter Tatchell of wargaming to OUT you!!!


Never mind, those glory days are creeping closer again.. I have just been onto the recruiting sergeant about 40 figure Russian Cuirassier units and more P R I E S T S
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Post by toggy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:11 pm

Just been looking at some orbats and noticed that Davouts 1st corps had approx 80 battalions, best get painting some of those then.

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Post by obriendavid » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:04 pm

But they were all quite small especially as they fought at Shevardino two days before. I look forward to seeing more of your figures in the New Year Bob.
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Post by CoffinDodger » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:21 pm

barr7430 wrote: ...and more P R I E S T S
Busy painting up a wee surprise for the Priests.

Jim
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Post by toggy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:55 pm

Good lad Jim need to put those incense burners in their place - Siberia hopefully.

Dave, should have about 10 battalions and a full battery to bring up in February.
Hope to see you at Whitburn in a couple of weeks.

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Post by barr7430 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:37 pm

:shock: :shock:

10 Battalions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really Bob?

Fantastic!.. means I can move on to something else... more Russians!
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Post by toggy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:15 pm

Barry,


I think that between your good self, Mr. O,Brien & Mr. Imrie there are more Russians than scotsmen in Scotland.

Remember the "Auld Alliance", more French (not forgetting Poles, Bavarians, Wurttemburgers, Italians &Saxons), its like Eurovision!


But yes all being well 10 battalions & a full battery.


Finally wishing everybody a happy new year.

Bob
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