Joe, Gavin & Mike Q&A

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barr7430
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Joe, Gavin & Mike Q&A

Post by barr7430 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:24 am

Topic #1 Artillery Target Priority
Situation, 2 lt guns (A and B) vs 1 (C) lt gun. On the previous turn A fired at a foot unit, B and C fired at each other. On the next turn A’s target obscured and no other target but C is available. Because B is already firing at C gun A cannot fire since fire cannot be combined.
Yes it can if no other target is available



Topic #2 Moving and Shooting
It appears a unit is double penalized when moving and shooting. First you can only move ½ and fire and then -2 to shooting if moving. Suggest one or the other to keep it simple. Especially given the 4" movement for foot in line.
Actually this is a really good point never rasied before! It used to be triple whammy as I often used the house rule 'stationary units fire first' which meant casualties were netted off before return fire. I will be interested in other's views on this one Joe, Gavin, Mike.



Topic #3 Risk to Officers
Do you check for each situation or at the end of the phase? For example: a unit with attached general is shot at by two units each of which caused casualties, do you make 1 check for each unit that fired/caused casualties, or or just 1 check after all shooting is complete? We played it per situation.
Hmmm... that is also a good point. In terms of 'volume of fire' your interpretation is propoably best however the mechanism itself is not scientific. The previous mechanism based on % risk was more logic based but some players found it difficult to mentaly calculate.

Topic #4 Close Combat Modifiers
; In the charge sequence there is an option for foot is to hold fire until contact but there isn’t a modifier for it on the horse vs foot close combat table. What modifier does foot use when fighting horse in this case? (or is it just a case of there is no reason for foot to do that if charged by horse) there is no foot vs horse combat table, we used the horse vs foot table where the hold fire option is not there, so foots only options when charged by horse are to fire at chargers or attempt defense against horse.(?)
Pretty much. Although I will look at this again. Foot have much better options now than they did in Version 1 when they couldn't fight back. Foot v Horse/Horse v Foot is the same table.

Topic #5A Pushback After Melee (more units become involved)
After a horse vs foot melee, where the horse unit wins the first round the foot unit is pushed back 2”. The cavalry’s follow-up causes the cavalry unit to contact a second infantry unit. This is not a break through as I understand it since the melee isn’t finished. Does the 2nd infantry unit now check morale for being charged? If passed does the second unit count as supporting the initial infantry unit in the next round of melee? (Also, would these situations be avoided if units squared up upon contact?)
I will probably need to give a couple of examples to illustrate how we might handle this.. leave it with me.

This raises a question among us, why bother with pushback in melee? Since melee is fought until a winner is had would it be simpler to just keep track of who won the required number of consecutive rounds? This would simplify things as there is no need to be pushed around the table complicating things (in our opinion) unnecessarily.
The reasons why pushbacks would be significant is that they MAY push the melee BEYOND the reach of reinforcements. Does that make sense?
Topic #5B Pushback After Close Combat (how far?)
Can you push back past your max charge distance? If you make charge contact after moving nearly all of your charge distance, can you continue to push units back 2” at a time even after moving farther than the charge distance? (We assume the answer is yes.)
Yes

Topic #6 Support Definition
Support is used in morale and melee but has different definitions (can cause confusion)
Good point I may change the melee iteration to REINFORCED
Topic #7 Morale and Rallying
When testing to rally from retreat, can you suffer a worse morale state?
(For example: a unit is shaken and is trying to rally. It has not been adversely affected by enemy units during the turn. The morale check result is “rout” which is worse than the original morale state, does it simply remain “shaken” or is it routed?)
ROUTED.... unless I introduce a definition table as i have for Horse. I think this may be a good development. I have been considering it over the last couple of weeks



Topic #8 Contact with Units Suffering from Adverse Morale
Are routed units contacted by enemy units destroyed? Are retreating units contacted by enemy units destroyed?
When you say contacted what do you mean.. Charged by?

Topic #9 Orders for Routed or Retreating Units
Can you give a move order to routed/retreated units? Or are their only options to stay put (no order) or attempt rally?
Routed and retreating units can only be given a RALLY order otherwise they do not test to RALLY but do throw for the variable ROUT movement as they are still in ROUT
Topic #10 Changing from Road March to Line
When going from road march column to line a FORM order was given, a D3 was rolled and 3 turns to make the change resulted. Does the owning general have to give a form order every turn until complete or will the unit, having been told to form, continue the maneuver without requiring FORM orders on the remaining turns? Also, is the unit considered in “road march” column until the reform is completed?
I know this road column thing is giving people a few headaches but let me explain the concept behind it. It is based on evidence I have read(not just from this period0 of long strung out columns arriving on a battlefield and taking up to 1 hour to form up. If the road was narrow the men may be only two or three files broad, 13 vompanies marching seperately, where are the officers, the wagons with the ammo, do they eat befor they fight etc etc. There is an argument for better trained units forming up quicker ie 1 turn guards/2 turns Drilled etc but the 'variable element' helped create uncertainty which is what I generally favour in games. If everything is predictable.. x turns to do this, 1/2 move to do that the whole experience becomes a set of mathematical probabilities and thus open to simple gamesmanship. I heard on the radio this morning that the very best Scrabble players on the entire planet are consistently Thais. In most cases they CANNOT speak English but they have memorised the langauage patterns and know the game mechanisms so well that they beat native English speakers at world championship level nine times from ten! I want to avoid the Thai syndrome in BLB.
Answer to Qs - no need to repeat the order it stands once given until reform complete. The unit is Disordered until the manoeuvre is complete.


Topic #11 Defend Orders
Once a unit is given a Defend order do they keep that order until changed by the CinC or a subsequent turn during normal order placement? ie unit given Defend order on turn one, on turn two they are given no order (thus no bonus'), but on turn three given defend again.
Nope.. MUST be renewed EACH turn to gain bonuses except if a garrison. More of that in FIBUA.

Topic #12 Dense Target
Suggest add Foot in line with a second battalion "X" inches behind. Our game a player had two Foot Battalions 1/2" behind each other. We corrected him on historical placement but I would have ruled it was a dense target. Question is what is the X factor in distance to avoid the penalty?
I should already have specified that.. 1 inch.. I'll put it in.
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Post by Darkman » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:31 pm

Topic #11 Defend Orders
Once a unit is given a Defend order do they keep that order until changed by the CinC or a subsequent turn during normal order placement? ie unit given Defend order on turn one, on turn two they are given no order (thus no bonus'), but on turn three given defend again.
Nope.. MUST be renewed EACH turn to gain bonuses except if a garrison. More of that in FIBUA.
Ok so in the defend order section it states that this order must be the first thing that is allocated out of the order allowence.
So if you have no order allowence one turn then do you still have to give then Defend orders next turn.
I would have thought that once you are ordered to defend something then that is it. As it says it will be very difficult to move them. I would not have thought it would need reinforceing from turn to turn.
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Post by flick40 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:32 am

I would have thought that once you are ordered to defend something then that is it. As it says it will be very difficult to move them.
First thing we need to clarify is the General Orders and the Command Allowance Orders.

At game start each brigade is given a General order. ie Take the hill and defend it. During normal game play you issue orders to units based on Command Allowance. The brigade you gave the General Order take and defend the hill need Command Allowance Orders of Move to get there, possibly Charge order to push the enemy from the hill and then finally a Defend order to hold the hill. In the version 1 rules a Defend order was automatic once a unit has achieved its General Order. Not clear if it still is.

Fast forward in your game that brigade has taken the hill and now needs to pursue the enemy. They have been given a Defend order off and on for a few turns to gain the bonus. So we need to change first the brigades General Order, the Commander must tell the Brigadier "Hey get off that hill and pursue the enemy." He sends a courier or does it himself in base to base contact with the Brigadier. Now the entire brigade has the new General Order, pursue the enemy.

Now the part that confuses me, if one battalion had Defend order last turn the only way to get that unit to move is for the Brigadier to tell them directly by joining the unit. But he has to give them Defend orders as a priority because they had Defend orders last turn...? :shock:

The rule on Defend
Once given, a DEFEND order is difficult to change. This requires either a personal visit from the Commander in Chief or the units Brigadier to be attached in the previous turn to change it. If Order Allowance is available in a turn then with Defend orders in the previous must be given them again as a priority before any other orders can be allocated including Charge orders. If no Order Allowance is available that turn then the unit stands with no orders.

I have emailed Barry about this and await further clarification. I suspect he will post his thoughts here.
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Post by Darkman » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:51 pm

Topic #2 Moving and Shooting
It appears a unit is double penalized when moving and shooting. First you can only move ½ and fire and then -2 to shooting if moving. Suggest one or the other to keep it simple. Especially given the 4" movement for foot in line.
Actually this is a really good point never rasied before! It used to be triple whammy as I often used the house rule 'stationary units fire first' which meant casualties were netted off before return fire. I will be interested in other's views on this one Joe, Gavin, Mike.
I would say that once a unit engages in a fire fight with another unit it should not move until one of them gives way. At what range you start firing your unit is up to you. Apart from the full move with penalty and first fire all other fire should be stationary.
Once you have started your unit firing I can imagine it would be difficult to get them to move forward unless the enemy started to back off.

It is a pity we cannot do fire fights as melees. If a melee fits into a 20 min Turn then a fire fight should as well. I imagine that the number of rounds carried was not excessive and the chances of carrying out a 1+ hours firefight in real time (3 turns or more) pretty slim.
Would that be possible I wonder?
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