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 Post subject: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:41 pm 
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Going to use VWQ for the TYW but it seems that there needs to be some rules on how to handle the following:

Use of Medium Artillery does it matter?

How to treat Harquebusiers?

How to treat some larger tercios with more pike, does it matter?

wondering what everyone else thinks.
thanks


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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:32 pm 
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We have a few folks in my local area wondering about TYW using VWQ rules as well. You mention at least 2 of the "hiccups" to doing that. VWQ is really representative of ECW, but not TYW (IMO). There were more "professionals" involved in TYW, so there are some definite differences.

That said, the flow of VWQ is so great, we would be interested in any solutions you come up with. I tend to find P&S a bit cumbersome - would prefer something more elegant like VWQ.

YIS,
Alan


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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:42 pm 
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Medium artillery and harquebusiers shouldn't be too hard to sort out, though I don't know the former would have enough of a distinction between light and heavy to make it worth modeling. Simply using the field artillery with reduced ranges might work ok.

The real bugger is tercios. TYW is not a period I've gamed and my brief sourjourn to try and tackle the issue didn't really bear fruit. Any solution will need to be a bit abstract... it's my impression that the tercios are much larger than VWQ units. Using the optional rule of different sized units may help by giving the tercios an extra stand to start with and maybe an additional combat bonus.

Like I said, I didn't really come up with a good solution, but I don't have any TYW troops so I probably didn't try hard enough. I've been firmly planted in the 1690's for the last decade and the only time my ECW models have taken the field were as militia cavalry defending Derry!

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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:32 am 
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thanks guys for jumping in on topic.

I was thinking about the optional rule in VWQ also, 2 stands of shotte and 2 stands of pike to form a unit. But I think only 1d6 added to melee rolls. The regiment needing 4 casualties I think is enough, and giving 2d6 in melee may be to overpowered. Even though there were more pike and more shotte in the regiments, I dont think adding more shotte bases would work very well, it would make the regiments way to cumbersome on the game table. I think just adding the extra stand of Pike would work.

I have read some accounts of foot charging horse, but cannot recall where, I will have to go thru many books on the shelve to find it. If any other TYW gurus are out there have you read this? If so, I would say that any foot wanting to charge horse would have to take a moral test.

Medium artillery, seemed to be able to move but not as nimbly as light guns. Maybe they spend an action to either, move, limber, unlimber or fire but none together. Effective range would be between Field and Light, or same as Field just a die less in firing??

Harquebusiers, fired the shorter musket from horseback, but didnt dismount to do so. Pretty sure range was longer than the Trotter's pistols but how effective is questionable. So we give them longer range but same die roll to hit as Trotters?

As far as more professionals in the armies, maybe in the scope of these rules there would be more Veteran troops??

Also I forgot that there would be Sword and Buckler/Halberdier type of troops, maybe give them Highlander stats, one stand per foot regiment since they rarely formed separate units, they hung out around the pike formations. Would they get their own card and only need one casualty?

Now I cant remember if the foot regiments had any formation like the Hedgehog used in VWQ. If so, the sword and buckler stand would be in the middle and then place the 2 muskets and 2 pike stands around them in rear to side edge contact looking like a bgi plus sign. . .? I dont know.

Probably would need to run a couple of games to see how it pans out.

Well back to grind.


Last edited by CoachB on Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:04 am 
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The typical armored cavalrymen in the ECW was referred to as a harquebusier, if that helps.


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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:16 am 
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CoachB - if you do run a few games, let us know the results! Inquiring minds and all that!

YIS,
Alan


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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:30 pm 
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Will do Alan.

Dfogleman2, yes in the beginning they were call harquebusier but were not armed with the carbine or not issued a carbine, if they had one it was their personal weapon.

I think, but not sure, the TYW harquebusier eventually became the Dragoons in the ECW which were rearmed with the longer weapon (flintloque or wheelloque?) and started dismounting to fire their weapons.

thats why I think the TYW Harquebusier should have difefernt stats from a Trotter of the ECW.

But it's all conjecture anyway and we could just have a nice discussion with a conclusion on how we want to treat them in our games and go with that. I will roll with whatever is worked out.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:27 pm 
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finally time to think about this topic again. What I have come up with so far but not used in a game yet. Presented here for your discussion, pros and cons.

MEDIUM ARTILLERY
Based the same as Field Artillery or on an 80x80.
roll 3d6 each stand, score hit on 4+
Range 0-5 short, 5+to 12 medium, 12+ to 20 long
Everything else as written for other artillery stands, except. Med Guns can move.
It takes an action to Limber, or to move is limbered or to unlimber. May not fire on turn it unlimbers.
Move distance when limbered, 4 inches.
May not be given Brigade orders.
Activated when artillery card is drawn.
May be ordered separately by a Brigadier's Card or CnC's Card.

HARQUEBUSIER
Based same as other horse with 2 figs per base.
Move 8 inches.
May not charge Steady Foot.
Do not need to test to charge Shaken Foot or horse.
May not charge a defended Obstacle.
Charge move is 12 inches.
Use 6.2 Shooting by Horse Units except Harquebusiers halt 10" from target unit.
Melee 2d6 per stand.
Uses Stand and Fire like Trotters.
May evade or counter charge like other horse.

CROATS OR OTHER LIGHT HORSE
Based same as other horse with 2 figs per base.
Move 10 inches.
May not charge Steady Foot.
Must test morale to charge Shaken Foot or Horse.
Do not need to test morale to charge flank or rear edge of artillery.
Must charge baggage train if in charge distance and do not need to test morale for the charge.
May not charge a defended obstacle.
Charge move is 18 inches.
If armed with bows treat as Trotters for shooting.
If armed with firearms treat as Harquebusiers for shooting.
Melee 2d6 per stand.
May not Stand and Fire.
Must always Evade other charging horse.
May counter charge other Croats/Light Horse.

LARGER TERCIOS
Tercios are comprised of 2 shotte stands and 2 pike stands. Basing as rules for foot.
Treated like foot units in all other aspects of the rules, excet:
When forming a Pike Stand, as per rules but place second Pike stand facing the rear of formation to form a plus sign.
Need 4 casualty markers to be removed from battlefield.

Okay that is all I have for now. LIke I mentioned before, I have no used these mods in a game yet. will try to in the next month when I get some free time. Meanwhile, have a go with these and see what you think.


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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Forgot to add after posting.

Larger Tercios
Instead of a second stand of Pike, it could be a stand of Halberdiers or Sword and Buckler men who would be place behind the pike stand in a normal line formation or in the rear position of a Pike Stand.

If in line formation and charged, the Halberdier or S&B still add their 2d6 in melee. Thus making the formation a shorted line but more dice in combat.

Okay thats all.


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 Post subject: Re: VWQ for TYW
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
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Location: Scotland
CoachB wrote:
Forgot to add after posting.

Larger Tercios
Instead of a second stand of Pike, it could be a stand of Halberdiers or Sword and Buckler men who would be place behind the pike stand in a normal line formation or in the rear position of a Pike Stand.

If in line formation and charged, the Halberdier or S&B still add their 2d6 in melee. Thus making the formation a shorted line but more dice in combat.

Okay thats all.


I thought separate units of halberdiers and sword and buckler died out in the 16th century and quite early on at that? Some halberd armed troops were kept on as colour guards but probably not enough to class as a separate unit.

Dave


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