Cover for the New Book (UPDATE 07.04.09)

All matters to do with gaming, painting and uniform information
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quindia
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Post by quindia » Sat May 30, 2009 4:25 am

:shock:

My 'notify me' box must have been unchecked, because I didn't realize the controversy raging here!

As far as I'm concerned, Colbert and Yermolov, you are both correct.

Colbert, I actually intend to get rid of the knot. In your quote above, you left out the line where I said I would certainly consider changing it, but I wanted to look through my references again. I really haven't worked on the rider much - the new post was mainly to show the title graphic. I actually do intend to remove it since the reference I pulled it from was dress best and not the campaign look I wanted.

However, the uniforms of the Napoleonic wars were anything but uniform. Certainly, regulations did not decree the knot be worn on overalls, but I can certainly come up with a narrative to give them to an individual trooper (not unlike a certain British rifleman who wears French cavalry coveralls and carries a dragoon's saber).

I could also put them in Spain if I wanted to - the war in that region was not over when the dragoons were converted to lancers in 1811. Some of those regiments fought in Spain earlier that year, as late as September. I can't find a certain date for the change to lancers and not even Sir Charles Oman's exhaustive narrative of 1811 (volume IV) makes mention of the fact. They might have been issued lances late in the year while still in Spain, though it seems more likely they would have received the new armaments in route to the campaign in Russia.

For that matter, my painting only shows half a dozen lancers, who could have been detached pretty much anywhere on a mission for their colonel (well, except probably Benidorm :) ).

I am certainly not Edouard Detaille, nor do I even attempt to be. Edouard Detaille was an amazing artist who practiced a technique of literal exactitude. From a bio elswhere on the net...

"Detaille made trips to Austria, England and Russia researching the uniforms and military customs of those places, but his love of the French Army held his most attention. In collaboration with Jules Richard, he prepared 2 lavishly illustrated volumes presenting the uniforms and classifications of the army from 1789- 1870. The 346 figures and 60 coloured plates in Types et uniformes de l’armee francaise represent an encyclopedia of their subject. Many illustrations were made from the artists personal collection of military artifacts."

In short, he was a military historian and fine artist his goal was to present images with the greatest degree of accuracy he could. I am a wargamer and illustrator who wants to get someone to pick up a book off the shelf. I really do hope to avoid glaring errors and actually appreciated the heads up, but in the end, I wouldn't have lost sleep over it if the detail had come to my attention after the book was out.

In any case, it's a moot point because I do plan on removing the knot. There is still quite a bit of work to do. Like many people who have chimed in, I liked the Spanish church much better than my Russian one so I may end up trying yet another building in the background. Almost everything about the lancer is still rough and both he and his mount are entirely too clean.
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Post by barr7430 » Sat May 30, 2009 9:53 am

I once wrote an article on this (about 8-10 years ago). It was called
Who's that bloke in the Pot Helmet?
I enjoyed writing it very much and it might be a laugh/thought provoking for those who haven't seen it before.. it is in the WARCHEST somewhere I think. It was in WI sometime between 1999 and 2002.

Anyway Clarence, if you're 'roughing' up Jacques on the horse giving him a 'blue chin' might make him look even more like he is on campaign! :wink:
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Post by Yermolov » Sat May 30, 2009 2:01 pm

Heh... this can't be a proper Napoleonic wargaming forum without at least one controversy over minutiae raging at any given moment. I was just doing my part. 8)
Anonymous

Lancers in Spain

Post by Anonymous » Sat May 30, 2009 10:54 pm

Hi Clarence,
to give you a hint at what date Lances were invented to Regiments in Spain
You may find this helpful:
The westphalien Chevaulegers got their Lances, ordered be decree on the 3rd Octobre 1811, delivered to them on the 9th Octobre 1811 after german Sources.
So no worries if you place the Lancer in Spain, Russia or elsewhere :D

Regards
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Post by quindia » Sat May 30, 2009 11:17 pm

Hmmm... thanks, Marechal!

Maybe I'll put the Spanish church back in...

Osprey mentions an organization decree on Jul 15, 1811 that specified the uniforms of the chevua-legers lanciers, but the small battles of late summer/early fall do not refer to any lancers.

Oman lists the dragoon regiments in action for certain as late as September, but there after only refers to Montbrune's (their commander indicated in the organizational lists) heavy cavalry brigades in remaining notes on maneuvers and skirmishes. Again, Oman makes no mention of the units leaving Spain at all in 1811 and that is sadly the last book I have in the series.

Does anyone have a date when these units were recalled from the Army of Spain to join Napoleon in the north?
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Post by barr7430 » Sat May 30, 2009 11:24 pm

OOOOOHHH... LOOKS LIKE WE MIGHT GET THE IGLESIA BACK 8)

Muy Bueno muchacho! :wink:
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Post by quindia » Sat May 30, 2009 11:44 pm

Heh, I also found a pencil drawing of a lancer in overalls with what looks like a knot or other type of embroidery on his thigh, but the angle makes it hard to be certain. The lancer is an NCO and it is remarked that he is wearing an officer's helmet as it is trimmed with leopard fur. Man, that would be so much cooler than brown... maybe I'll steal that.

Here's a quote regarding dragoons...
" The calf-length, off-white, coarse hide riding breeches common to dragoons were as often as not replaced for but parade dress by overalls of highly diverse cut, pattern, and color."

To set up a quote on lancers, regarding the overalls, "As the wars progressed [beyond 1811], variations became still more diverse than those of dragoon regiments."

On lancers, after describing many variations seen among the overalls of regiments regiments, a paragraph closes "With this garment it was very much a case of 'anything goes'..."

Finally, after a lengthy description of the 1812 regulations there is a final sentence: "There is no reason to suppose that this decree was regarded with any more reverence than any other."

Again, Colbert is absolutely correct about the official uniform, and if I were doing a piece to represent the "typical" lancer, I might be more inclined to stick to the regulation. The more reading I've done on the subject, the more I think it doesn't really matter...
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Post by barr7430 » Sat May 30, 2009 11:57 pm

Honestly Clarence,
do what looks best... leopard skin band and austrian knots plus a spanish church gets my vote......

It's our book you know!!!! :lol:
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Post by 18th Century Guy » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:06 am

Do one with pink feathers and really tick some people off! :lol:
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Post by quindia » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:51 pm

The final cover is up (check the first post in this thread). The Spanish church is back in, the Hungarian knot is out, and all of the details have been worked in... well, maybe! I'm sure I will be playing around with this until I send it off to the printer, but for now, I'm calling it finished!
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Post by daniel1492 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:49 pm

Nice work Clarence!
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Post by kiwipeterh » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:07 pm

Agreed, very nice work ... though I'm not sure that there are the correct number of zig-zaggy bits edging the sheepskin!

:D

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Post by quindia » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:55 pm

kiwipeterh wrote:Agreed, very nice work ... though I'm not sure that there are the correct number of zig-zaggy bits edging the sheepskin!

:D

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Front Cover of Republic to Empire

Post by Churchill » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:28 pm

Hi Clarence,

Wow the finished artwork of the front cover of Republic to Empire is excellent and impressive and will no doubt make people stop to read though them once on sale to the wargaming public.

Come on Barry it's your turn to do your bit and get these rules to print.....looking forward to the finished set.

Regards..............Ray.
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Post by quindia » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:12 pm

Yeah, Barry, come on get this thing finished!
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