Blenheim OOB

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
Post Reply
mikeb
Private
Private
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 3:56 am
Location: Miamisburg, Ohio USA

Post by mikeb » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:15 pm

So I am trying to hard to stay focused on one thing at a time. AWI is the current project and I have been so good. No ancients, no ECW, no WSS.

But any more phots like these and I'll have to dig out the Front Rank and start painting.

They are fantastic. Did you take the photos outside by any chance? Your photography is as excellent and the figures!

Mike B
User avatar
huevans07
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:56 pm

Post by huevans07 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Pant... pant... pant....

It's the close-ups, Ray! I can't stop looking at the close-ups!

Pant... pant... pant........
Churchill
General
General
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:49 pm

Post by Churchill » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:24 pm

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Churchill
General
General
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:49 pm

Falkirk Show & Painting Competition

Post by Churchill » Sun May 10, 2009 7:16 am

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
obriendavid
General of the Army
General of the Army
Posts: 2588
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post by obriendavid » Mon May 11, 2009 6:10 pm

Ray, it was good to see you on Saturday as you said its good to put a face to the name. Congratulations on your win in the painting competition I was so busy with our display that I never got a chance to see the painting comp, the B&B and much of the show. I said hi to Phil Olley at 7.45am when he was setting up and only got to say cherrio at 5pm after we had both packed up.

Cheers
Dave
Churchill
General
General
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:49 pm

Three more regiments finished

Post by Churchill » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:41 pm

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Heneborn
Major
Major
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:00 pm

Post by Heneborn » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:17 pm

Fantastic as always!
Churchill
General
General
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:49 pm

Post by Churchill » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:23 pm

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pabblo41
First Sergeant
First Sergeant
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: uk

Royal Reg of Ireland Grenadier Caps

Post by pabblo41 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:42 pm

Hi Churchill

First of all Fantastic painting, but I have a question? Did not the Grenadiers of this regiment wear the stiff mitre like the guards did, as there is an actual example in the National Army Museum, and you can find a black & white phote of the hat on page 30 of the Osprey Marlboroughs' Army 1702-11 book. (It may be from a later period but the impression it gives is that they actually did wear this mitre during the WSS. I know that during the reign of the Georges, all grenadiers had the Honover Horse on the front in the bottom section.)

I know Robert Hall's prints are not entirely accurate, as he has had to make educated guesses in some cases (I had a question on another plate of his, spoke to him and he said they have had to guess.

Thanks
Pabblo41
Churchill
General
General
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:49 pm

Royal Irish Grenadier Caps

Post by Churchill » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:57 pm

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pabblo41
First Sergeant
First Sergeant
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: uk

18 Royal Irish

Post by pabblo41 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:05 pm

Hi Ray

Agree with your comments on the sad state of Marlborough's trophies (having said that there are flags from the Seven Years War which are still around, but they are not British), and that it is a guessing game for a lot of these units. But I think you need to take a look at the photo (because it is a photo of an actual Mitre which you can go and see, not a drawing, and is from the National Army Museum), also I have other sources which also say that the 18th Royal Irish were the only other unit known to wear the stiff mitre during this period. If I am correct it comes from the memoirs of Captain Robert Parker who was a captain of the grenadier Company in the Royal Irish regement during the WSS. When George I came to the throne in 1715, one of the symbols of the House of Hanover was the white horse on a red field(there were 2 exceptions a guards regement (had a blue background) and a Welsch regement (had a sheep instead of a horse, typical of the Welsch). All Grenadier Companies had this on their headdress so the photo of the mitre predates this as it does not.

Iain Stamford probably knows more about it than either of us, and he and I have discussed uniform details about the 1st Orkneys and 23rd Royal Welsch Fusiliers, Royal Scots Fusiliers(21st) and artillary. If you are a member of the Pike & Shot Yahoo user group you can see our conversations there, they make interesting reading. Iain's view on the 1st Orkneys was that they had white and not blue facing for the entire period of the WSS and did not change to blue until George I came to the throne. (I noticed you have done Orkneys in blue, so have I). It is known that they were certainly white during the LOA but do not know when they changed to blue. My view is that they changed from white to blue in 1707 after the act of union between England & Scotland (which our Scottish Friends in the SNP are trying to dissolve) in line with the Scots Guards who changed from white to blue at this date, as they were also a "Royal" regiment. You are right about the act of union between Britain and Ireland happening in 1806 from which we get our current union flag. But from what I understand after 1707 the union flag was issued and carried in the field, but as with the Napelonic Wars, only after the old flags had worn out, so you will get a mish mash. The first units to carry new flags were generally the Guards (as they got them first). So I would imagine the Colstream Guards carried the post 1707 flag at the two WSS battles they were present at which were both post 1707.

Re the Scots Fusiliers having red cuff and not blue. Iain Stanford pointed out to me that since the fusiliers were raised to protect the artillary, they had the same uniform as the artillary. For the Scottish establishment this was red and for the English (and Welsch) establishment this was blue(there was also an Irish establishment, Britian in fact having 3 armies at this stage English, Scottish and Irish with a lot of the units going to Flanders coming from the Irish establishment), hence the Scot Fusiliers having red cuffs and the English and Welsch Fusiliers having blue cuffs. The Welsch fusiliers actually became fusiliers in 1702 being a conversion of an existing unit (later being numberd 23, interesting to note that a company from their 2nd battalion won all those VC's at Rourkes Drift against the Zulus).

But when faced with a dilema like this I always use the wargamers get out clause, They look really good painted in those colours, so I will ignore history, and your figures certainly do so why change them.

Thanks for the debate.
Pabblo41
Churchill
General
General
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:49 pm

23rd Foot "Welsh Fusiliers"

Post by Churchill » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:48 am

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mats
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:56 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Royal Irish Grenadier Caps

Post by Mats » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:46 am

Churchill wrote: Flag information well again there is nothing left in existance so it is a guessing game and unless you have a time machine I'd like to know what you would do???
Have you tried the works of Belaubre and De Wilde? Their series "Les armees qui combattirent Louis XIV" contain a lot of flag information.

Cheers,

Mats
Churchill
General
General
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:49 pm

British Flags

Post by Churchill » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:29 am

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
danschorr
Major
Major
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:58 am

Post by danschorr » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:07 pm

Ray et al,

The booklets cited by Mats were privately published by Jean Belaubre in the 1970s. All of them, except for the Dutch are covered in the Robert Hall Books and CDs. They are also available on the Golberg CDs; although these are in German. Golberg was a collaborator with Jean Belaubre and Dr. F.G. de Wilde, the noted Dutch expert on uniforms and flags.

Ray, you are correct. The Belaubre material does not cover the British.

By the way, Jean Belaubre is still alive. Unfortunately, both Dr. de Wilde and Hr. Golberg have passed away.

Regards,

Dan
Post Reply