Blenheim OOB

[barr7430]

Not familiar with Mr Mueller Ed. Have a look at this

INFANTRY

William III initially had 37 battalions in Ireland IN 1689-90(4 were guard - 3 Dutch, 1 Danish) = 10%
James II's army in 1688 had 34 battalions of foot of which 3 were guards = 10% (Scots Guards were on the Scottish establishment)
James IIs army in Ireland had 56 battalions of which 2 were guards = 3.5%

etc etc etc.

The French may in some cases have fielded the entire Maison du Roi (6 Bns of GF and I think 4 bns of GS) but not always. At Neerwinden there were in excess of 80,000 French troops. I think (off the top of my head )80 battalions+..... Even if all of the MdR were there that is still only 12.5 % I don't think the MdR foot units were even at Blenheim.

Don't disagree with Mr Mueller's comments on battlefield usage of Guards but would dispute the %ages I think

[Churchill]

Ray.

[barr7430]

Ray,

1:2 is actual men! ie 1 cavalryman to two infantrymen this will work out somthing like
1 or 2 squadrons per battalion. Horse should be about a third of the army. compare this with Napoleonic period of 10-20% max.

Gun model equals a group of guns. 6 sounds a little high but wouldn't argue stonrgly against!
The value of artillery in BLB in not primarily casualty infliction but constant morale tests and general disruption of the enemy's progress.

Light guns would be used in the 'battalion support role' a las Culloden

[Churchill]

Ray.

[barr7430]

Flag info is in the WARCHEST Ray - Quick n'dirty Guide. It has also appeared as an article in WI some time ago but can't remember the issue number sorry

[Bluebear]

Barry,

As an aside to Rays last post, while many people enjoy doing all of the research to find out details such as uniform info and OBs, many of us don't have the time, interest or access to sources in order to do so.

Thus I think having some way of presenting that information is an excellent idea . . . whether it be via more print vehicles or pdfs or whatever. So give Ray's idea some thought.


-- Jeff

[Churchill]

Ray.

[barr7430]

Ray, Hey! I thought the idea was excellent!

In between the forum I hsave been footpadding it round Europe trying to make a living! Heathrow T5 grand opening just about put paid to me today as it took me 10 hours to get from Milan to Glasgow.. might have been quicker by Dragoon Nag

Back to the ideas, I am just holding fire because as yet I have not seen the finished BLB. Allegedly in transit from Germany right now. Once I have it, sell it, make enough money to cover costs of other production, Clarence and I will be happy to go down the supplements route as long as there is a market for it.

Keep pestering and see what happens!

[Churchill]

Ray.

[reiver rob]

Ray,
I've had to do a lot of reading and checking sources before replying to this one.
Ray and Mark at UTB have the Museum guide to the 23rd which states that they had Grenadier style hats as fusiliers during the period in question. I know that Ray has sent off a request to the Museum, as you have, to find out where they sourced the info from but I'm not convinced that they became 'true' fusliers in dress until they were granted the Royal Warrant in 1714 becoming the Prrince of Wales's own Royal Welsh Fusiliers.
Even though it states that Queen Anne gave them the fusilier title in 1702 I still believe that they served under their Colonel's name until becoming the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. The title given by Queen Anne may have been nominal until it was confirmed at a much later date and as a result the fusilier style cap which shows the Prince of Wales Feathers and Hanovarian horse described in 1715 would suggest that there is some doubt that they would have worn the fusilier cap in 1704 at Blenheim. If this is the case then they would be dressed as normal infantry and of course the other thing to consider is that if they were granted fusilier status at that point what's to say that they got the caps there and then. Supply on campaign on the Continent was notoriously bad.It would be interesting to see if anyone has any other ideas on this .
I may well be proved wrong but no doubt we will only know when the reply comes back from the Museum.
As for flags for the 23rd, I've hunted around and come up with a blank. The suggested 'rising sun' above the clouds refers to the Prince of Wales which I think would date it well after Blenheim and the same applies to the Prince of Wales feathers and dragon. Ray has a copy of the Ingoldsby family crest when you next see him.
I hope this helps
Rob

[Churchill]

Ray.

[Churchill]

Ray.

[Churchill]

Ray.

[barr7430]

Ray, I must begin by saying that this is MY interpretation based on knowledge of the period and of course subject to counter argumentation. I am NOT anti-Brit (being one myself that would be rather bizarre) I am however healthily sceptical about overly sycophantic and subjective classifications of British troops in any(every) period. We always seem to be Elite, super elite, crack shots, best in melee, super steady etc..... I think this is a yawning bore and kind of perpetuates the myth of xenophobic superiority which is not helpful in historical research or real understanding of warfare and battles. Rant over here goes:
WSS period Troop classification for the British regiments at Blenheim: obviously the Foot Guards (1st : GUARDS)
2nd: ELITE Guards if you really must!

Orkney's Royal Scots Elite,
3rd DRILLED but I wouldn't argue ELITE

8th, 10th, 15th, 16th, 18th, 21st, 23rd, 24th, 26th and 37th DRILLED (Although the the 21st..Scots Fusiliers were formed in 1678, previously on the Scottish establishment and could be classed as ELITE)
Most of the British Horse have "Guards" in their title e.g. Lumley's, Wood's, Cadogan's, Wyndham's and Schomberg's are these all Elite. I would be careful about the word Guards... these units did not have Guards in the title in 1704 they were simply regiments of Horse the 'Guards' additional descriptor/honorific came much later. I woud class ALL of these as DRILLED

The remaining Horse regiment's are Hay's 2nd Dragoons "Scots Greys", Ross's 5th Dragoons "Royal Irish" and the Erbprinz Dragoons are these Elite also or Drilled. ALL DRILLED
Finally the class of Colonel Holcroft Blood's Artillery DRILLED

Remember Ray in the 1701-1714 period the combat capability of British & Dutch Horse is improved (Kills on 4,5,6 in 1st round of melee) and the Musketry of the Foot gets a +1 because of platoon fire doctrines. Boosting up the morale of the Brits is a bit thick

[Churchill]

Ray.