League Of Augsburg - Fighting Talk

I have found no reference to Massei uniforms and I tought it was a typing mistake for Maffei, but I have seen their nice different flags in Reiver website. Any help please? Best regards Giorgio

Giorgio,

I believe the Reiver site is in error. There was to the best of my knowledge no infantry regiment Massei, only a Maffei I know Reiver Rob is on this list. Perhaps he can tell us the source for Massei.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Dan

A customer in Scotland asked us for flags for the Bavarian army so when I first had Massei presented to me by our flag designer I was a little sceptical myself but he produced a reference and reason for it. He's going to e-mail me with the details which I'll post later.

I think it may be a derivation of the name 'Mercy' but leave it with me and I'll get the details. It's certainly not a spelling mistake and I think it was another successors name for one of the other regiments.

Incidentally the warflag.com site has Massei as one of their flags for the period which I noticed the other day.

Rob

Any news?

Best regards
Giorgio

Hi Giorgio,
I'm still waiting for the reference however I do believe from memory the name Massei is another form of writing Mercy.

As with most names, place names, etc when they are often written in one language the translation to another is written down as the word is pronounced. I hope this makes sense.

On another subject, was it you who wanted the model of Eugene of Savoy? If it was then we've just produced one along with Vauban, Villers and the Duke of Monmouth (he still has his head on!).

Rob

Yes I’m that Customer of yours, but I haven’t found in your web site these new models. Is it an anticipation?
Your explanation about massei sound reasonable to me…after realizing that I have to read it with English pronunciation instead that Italian (something like mussay)
Thank you very much
Giorgio

The figures only came out at the weekend but they are available. If you e-mail the Under the Bed guys you can get one.

I'll see about getting them on the website as soon as possible.

If it helps, Hoffmann states in his "Die Armee des Blauen Königs" ("The Army of the Blue King"), a Regiment of Horse named Maffei and one named Mercy in 1702. If interested I can provide more detailed Info at the end of the week.

Greetings

Having done some research yesterday, I can tell you the following:

1. Forget what I wrote above.

2. There were, according to Hoffmann (Page 3 of "Die Armee des Blauen Königs"), two Regiments of Foot among others, one called Maffei and one called Mercy in 1702, so the units aren´ t identical.

3. The confusion about the names Maffei and Massei is not one of spelling but of reading (yes, sounds ridiculous, I know...). I assume that the basic sources, used for the research on the Bavarian Army, is from the 19th century, probably Staudingers book. Most german books of the 19th century were printed in Fraktur script, in which a small s and a small f would look nearly similar. Due to the bad printing technology of that days, today even a skilled person can hardly tell the differnce between the two letters.

Hope that helps, if there are still questions, just ask.

It's good to have someone who reads German.

If this means there are actually 3 different regiments then it brings us back to the original question of flags and uniforms. The flags for Massei and Maffei are different. Any thoughts?

Rob,

I believe what Charles XII is saying is that Massei is a corruption of Maffei because reading German Fraktur the f and s are very similar and often confused. There was no regiment Massei, only Maffei. I don't know who started the whole Massei mess, but it appears to be an error that is continuously repeated. It's like trying to stamp out a virus.

Regards,

Dan

Dan,
I see what you're saying but I trusted the guy who did the Bavarian flags for us and when I questioned him about it he did give me a valid explanation at the time however he can't find the source for it now to pass on. If I thought for one second it was all rubbish I wouldn't have allowed the flags to be printed and sold. He assured me Massei was Mercy. Does anyone have a flag reference for Mercy so I can compare it please?

The reference to the 'Maffey' (written as this) flag I have comes from the Wagner plates and looks nothing like the 'Massei' flag which I was given to produce by the designer. Having checked through other flag manufacturers I've found a 'Massei' amongst Warflag's productions which looks similar to ours. I have been assured by the designer he had never seen Warflag's site until I pointed it out to him after he'd made the Bavarian flags. If this is wrong I will remove it from sale immediately.

Warflag have the 'Maffey' I use as 'Colonel de la Collinies French Volunteers'. I can find no reference to their regiment on the Wagner plate or any other books for 'Maffey' but that plate only shows the date of the regiment from 1695-1704 which isn't to say they became the other unit after 1704. I would appreciate any information which other gamers may have. My resource material is plenty but not the ultimate library.

As for 'f' and 's' I have been reading old English and old Scots material for a very long time and I do understand old type face. I can see what you're saying Dan and agree however I was convinced by the designer Massei was Mercy. Maybe if I'd written it in the catalogue as Mercy none of this would be being discussed now and I don't think anyone would have known the difference but I'm not here to deceive anyone so I wrote it as the designer had written it and passed it on to me.

If nothing else this subject has provided some interesting discussion. I too would like to see the end of it so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Rob

It seems that some deeper research is neded. I will see what I can do, but as I will be away from University till mid-October, it could take a while before I can start with that seriously. Hope you can wait that long.

Greetings

Maximillian

Dear all,
I've been fortunate enough to have the guiding hand of Dan Schorr on this subject and as a result Reiver Castings will be withdrawing Massei from the Bavarian flag lists as it isn't a Bavarian regiment. Sorry Giorgio.

Mercy are the same regiment as Haxthausen.

I'm glad we were able to clear this up as it now means I can get on with putting some figures together and I don't mean plastic ones, (not that I have a problem with them) I'm talking about metal masters for moulds.

This time of year always sees Reiver Castings getting ready for a big release at Derby. This year is no exception and it's time for the War of The Spanish Succession. British, French, Austrian, Dutch, Danish, Prussian and Bavarian complete armies for the first release. The lists will appear on the website soon as well as some other stuff which isn't part of the period so I won't talk about it here. In addition to this there will be some more pieces for the Russian GNW range.

Can I just say again how much I appreciate Dan's help with the flags discussion as it has expanded my knowledge on the subject and helped to get it right.

Regards
Rob

Thank you for the explanations. So just to close the point, what is related to the flag originally called massei ? Thanks and best regards
Giorgio