the battle of the boyne

[the-clan]

hi, barry, still building my armies up, so i have a few queries for you, if you can help. my main question is re., two books about the battle. the first one is the OSPREY BOOK BY MICHAEL McNALLY, it's lists state JACOBITE ARMY AS., 7 CAV REGTS, 6 DRAGOON,24 IRISH FOOT, 6 FRENCH FOOT., WILLIAMITE ARMY AS., 24CAV REGTS(INC, HARBORDS UNIT,)5 DRAGOON AND 39 MIXED FOOT REGTS., but the other book which is., FROM THE OLDBRIDGE VISITOR CENTER SITUATED AT THE BATTLE SITE, BY HARMAN MURTAGH, list states., JACOBITE ARMY AS.,9 CAV REGTS, 7 DRAGOON,26 IRISH FOOT, 7 FRENCH FOOT., WILLIAMITE ARMY AS.,23 CAV REGTS, 5 DRAGOON, AND 38 MIXED FOOT REGTS., whch one would you say is right and which regts are missing. my 2nd question is., ibought some good flags from parkfield miniatures, but a few i'm not sure if they where at the boyne or where just garrison troops, could you be able to tell me where they were and what they did if they were in lreland at all. the regiments in question are., CHURCHILLS., THE ROYAL REGIMENT OF FOOT(SCOTTISH)., 1ST FOOT GUARDS., EARL OF BATH'S., THE HOLLAND REGT., VAN VELDERENS(DUTCH)., AND DEGENELATIWS GEWORBNE'S(DANISH)., AND THE JACOBITE REGIMENTS., ROTH'S, BERWICK'S AND GALMOY'S. SORY FOR SO MUCH TO ASK YOU BUT YOU HAVE BEEN A GREAT HELP TO SO MANY PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THE BOYNE IN THE PAST SO YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON I WOULD ASK FOR INFO, MANY THANKS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. I HAVE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS BUT I'LL LEAVE THEM AT THE MOMENT (DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOU A SORE HEAD)., BFN.

[Projekt_Direktor]

Hi,

Barry is away for a week or 2, so he might not be able to reply for a while.
But - with him, he will answer when he can.

Cheers
Spencer

[barr7430]

LOVE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION AND WILL DO SO WHEN I GET BACK TO THE UK next week.

McNally's book on Aughrim is fantastic and full of great stuff but I felt the Boyne Osprey could have been a little better. He seems very reliable but I would have thought the Oldbridge Visitors Centre would have gotten info like orbats right.
The interesting thing is that Museums sometimes don;t apply the forensic detail of the wargamer! (maybe they don;t think the general public are too interested in Orders of Battle!)

Revert soon, all the best

B

[the-clan]

ta very much, barry, hear from you soon, all the best.

[Rebel]

Just arrived back from the Netherlands - Will try to post a detailed reply this evening or in the next day or so.

Mike.

[Rebel]

Have dug out my own working papers as well as my copy of Harman's 'guide to the battlefield' which, it should be mentioned, was not produced for or by the OPW which runs the Oldbridge Site but rather by the Boyne Valley Honey Company.

Having looked at Harman's army lists I can only assume that he has totalled the number of units which appear in the 1990 article which was prepared for the tricentenary edition of 'The Irish Sword' by Harman and his father Diarmuid. I do have a copy of the article and can - if needed - list the regiments here in a later post.

Please note that he refers to infantry as battalions and thus his 7 French battalions does equal my 6 French regiments as Zurlauben was 2 battalions strong. Also a number of Jacobite foot regiments (e.g. Footguards, de Boisseleau) were also two battalions strong.

As for the lists which appear in the Osprey on the Boyne they were compiled from sources such as Walton, d'Alton and Dalton as well as Analectica Hibernia, Franco-Irish Correspondence (3 vols) and the Memoirs of the Comte d'Avaux, and am satisfied that the lists were researched as far as was possible at the time. The only caveat I would add is that later research has enabled me (primarily for the Dutch but also to a degree for all of the participant nations) to follow the succession of colonels which meant that the later Aughrim list was also as accurate I could make it.

I assume that the Question 2 units are in the main foot - let me know and I'll start digging - Roth's and Berwick's eventually came out of the dissolution of the Army in Exile in 1692 whilst Pierce Butler (3rd Viscount Galmoy) did indeed command a regiment of Jacobite horse in 1690/1.

Hope this helps,


Mike.

[the-clan]

yes the flags i bought were all for foot regiments from parkfield miniatures, and i was wondering where the units i asked about were stationed, did they take part in the boyne, aughrim, or where they garrison troops, and where did they garrisoned. ta again for all your help, bfn.

[Rebel]

Hi Iain,

am fine thanks but have been hiding lately as have been finishing two Ospreys (unfortunately out of period though - Colditz and Varus). Hopefully will soon be getting a commission from Osprey for a CAM series on the 1798 Irish Rising and one from The History Press on Cromwell's War with Spain, which will cover the whole shooting match from the Med to Jamaica and then the Battle of the Dunes...

Am also pestering them (Osprey) over Aughrim, Almanza, Malplaquet and Denain to name but a few, but have to be both persistent and patient.

Have seen the Marburg plates (thanks to a good tip from Robert Hall) and there are a number of errors there, the ones I found are within the Dutch regiments as a number of colonels changed between the Boyne and Aughrim.

As far as I'm aware the only "Williamite Guards" in Ireland were the Dutch regiments (Foot, Horse and Dragoons). As you rightly say the 1st Battn Footguards was in London and the other two in Flanders. As soon as I get a chance will dig out Walton (British Standing Army) and Dalton (Commission Registers) to double check.

To "The Clan" again, will dig out what I have on the regiments named and will try to post soonest.

Any other questions drop me a line.


All the best,


Mike.

PS Iain, it may or may not be of interest but Dr Kjeld Galster, a friend of mine at the Danish MOD has just finished a book on the Danish Contingent entitle "For King and Coffers" - Four Courts Press are publishing and it should AFAIK be out early next year.

[Rebel]

Iain,

look forward to it .


Mike.

[Rebel]

Here we go then (but in no particular order)

Royal Regt of Foot (Scots) - Flanders.
Dumbarton's Regt (1st Batt) - Flanders.
Dumbarton's Regt (2nd Batt) - Recruiting in Scotland.

Charles Churchill's - Ireland (as Charles Trelawney's)
John Granville, Earl of Bath's - Flanders (after reforming Dec 1688)
Holland Regt (Prince George of Denmark's) - Flanders

Royal Regt of Foot (English) - 1st Batt Flanders
Royal Regt of Foot (English) - 2nd Batt England
(am not 100% sure on this two so will recheck)

Will do the Jacobites later but could you please re-check the names of the Dutch and Danish regiments as none of my sources are coming up with either name.

Cheers,

Mike.

PS Iain - Got your PM but am just off for daddy duty so with answer later this evening. Hope that OK with you.

[the-clan]

the dutch and danish names are the ones given on the sheets of the flags i got from parkfield miniatures, and i was not sure of them either, that is why i asked did anyone know them and where they were stationed.

[barr7430]

Clan

sorry I didn't reply directly but I saw the experts were doing much better than I could!!

cheers

B

[danschorr]

Clan,

I believe I can help with the Degenfelt Danish Regiment. The only Danish regiment with that name existed 1674-76. Following the Battle of Lund (Dec 1676) the remains of the unit were incorporated in the Kongens Livregiment.

I have no idea as to the source of the Parkfield flags, nor do I know what they look like. If I did, I might be able to identify them.

Hope this helps.

Dan

[Rebel]

Am going through my listing of Dutch colonels /Regimental officers.
Hope to have an answer by tonight.



- Mike

[Rebel]

It was a "typo" the unit is Infanterie Regt van Welderen, of which there are a few at various times. Can definitely state that the unit didn't fight in Ireland as in 1691 a van Welderen Regt was serving in Flanders.

- Mike.