GNW Russian Guard Grenadiers

[Redmist1122]

Does anyone make a Russian Guard Grenadier in helmet? If not, has anyone did a mode to make the helmet?

Thanks.

[Redmist1122]

Throwing this out again - any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Cheriton]

Throwing this out again - any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Greg:

I know a lot of converting is not (at all) popular like it was years ago. Of course those guys who used to convert Airfix 8th Army into Swedish pikemen (I jest) were what one might consider "needs must"!

But you might be able to modify a Russian SYW grenadier mitre enough to be convincing in 25/28? Handy at all with green stuff, how many would you need to do? They had that sort of bombardier type mitre with the back flap, right?

Good luck,

Michael

[Redmist1122]

Michael,
Totaly forgot about the "green stuff" path...thanks! I'm not much of sculpter. But...I do have a friend who's real good...will see him tonight at a game. He's supplied me with all the good...just not my cup of tea.
Yes, the helmet has a flap on the back. I would need just enough to put in a few Russian Guard units. Still reading up on the Russians - not sure if the Guard Grenadiers had their own battalion too.

[Tacitus]

Bear in mind that the famous grenadier helmets of the guard were not introduced until 1712. Before then the Preobrazjenskij guard grenadiers had bearskin caps.

As far as I know the guard regiments only had one company of grenadiers each which they retained. So any guard grenadier battalions are unlikely to have existed.

[Cheriton]

Tacitus:

Bear in mind that the famous grenadier helmets of the guard were not introduced until 1712. Before then the Preobrazjenskij guard grenadiers had bearskin caps.

I had not heard that (bearskins) before, very interesting. Thanks...

Greg:

That might open up using Ebor's bearskinned grenadier for you, but, likely too large for what you have? Old Foundry would probably match in size better for you.

Just realized the WF box has some bearskins, maybe somebody has a handful they don't need. You might need to alter the bags?

Michael

[Redmist1122]

@ Tacticus,
The only russian source I have is the Osprey books. With that being said, The Poltava 1709 Campaign book, pg 22, shows a Grenadier from the Preobrazhenski Regiment wearing the helmet in the plate. Another page, 42 shows a front & side drawing of the same helmet. I know the Ospreys can be a bit incorrect.
Not to challenge your source, but what is it? Curious on the bearskin headgear. Are we talking about a Bavarian or Austrian looking bearskin hat?

Thanks for your insight

[Tacitus]

I have two books that says the helmets came later. In the third book of Lars-Eric Höglunds GNW uniform trilogy it is mentioned that the English made helmets were not issued to the Preobrazjenski guard until after 1709. He gives the impression that mitre caps were used before then, although he is not specifically refering to Preobrazjenskij but to Russian grenadiers in general.

However, in the other book: "Vägen till Poltava - Slaget vid Lesnaja 1708" written by Pavel Konovaltjuk and Einar Lyth 2009, there is an image of a Preobrazjenski grenadier with the helmet. The caption reads: "Russian guard grenadier of 1712's model. In 1708 the grenadiers wore bearskin caps." They do not give any clue to what kind of bearskin caps was used.

[Friedrich August I.]

I think I saw illustrations of early Russian Grenadiers in Christopher Duffy's: "Russia's Military way to the West". For me one of the best sources in english language.

[karamustafapasha]

I have seen a good post on this but I don't remember where - the Early Linear Warfare Society yahoo group maybe?

In any case as I remember the Guard grenadiers were a single company per regiment and didn't get the helmet until 1712 at least. I think that there is some doubt that they had them even then and I think it was a lot later (1720's) when they certainly had them. But whatever date is right this basically means they were not used in the main part of the war

As I understand it before this the guard grenadiers generally wore tricorns. But the Preobrazjenski might have had either the mitre or bearskin for parades, etc. It is not known what the Semenovski had, if anything.

I will see if I can find the original post.

Duffy's "Russia's Military way to the West" is good but a bit out of date now.

[Redmist1122]

All right we're getting somewhere! Scratch the helmet, and lets work on either the mitre or tricorn. I guess to narrow down what Russian army to do, would be before Poltava - 1701 - 1708.
I have the book "The Great Northern War 1700-1721 - Colours and Uniforms" for the Swedish Army, Does anyone have the second book same tile but covers the Russian Army? A check in there might worth a look too. I know the Swedish one has more information than I expected.

Thanks again guys!

[Tacitus]

I have the book "The Great Northern War 1700-1721 - Colours and Uniforms" for the Swedish Army, Does anyone have the second book same tile but covers the Russian Army? A check in there might worth a look too. I know the Swedish one has more information than I expected.

Yes, that one was actually one of the books I was referring to in my previous post. It only mention that the helmets came later than 1709. And although the book give the impression that Preobrazjenski had mitres it is only the other book from 2009 that explicitly states what headgear its grenadiers wore before the helmet, i.e. bearskin caps.

[Redmist1122]

Oh ok...well then I'll throw in a few mitres then. Thanks BIG time for your help.

[Robartes]

While for the 'highlight' of the Great Northern War their hats are totally ahistorical, I am of the opinion that any horse and musket Russian wargames army needs to include the Preobrazhenski guard, with the funny hats. It's just one of those wargame things, like red tunics on Roman legionaries and Old Guard Grenadiers appearing in every battle. Noblesse oblige

So, if you are of the same opinion and still looking for figures to represent the Guard Grenadiers with their specific helmets, I used the Foundry Seven Years Wars figures for them, though checking just now I could not find them on the Foundry website anymore. But knowing Foundry, they might still show up again some time in the future.

[Redmist1122]

@ Robartes,
You definitly hit it on the head about fielding them.

Didn't know Foundry had them. Now for the hunt...

Thanks!