Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

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Spiraluk
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Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

Post by Spiraluk » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:14 pm

I'm having a real problem finding info about the troops in the wars covering this period so hopefully you knowledgeable chaps here can help me out.

Cavalry is proving a real problem so can anyone answer the following?

1)Did Dutch cavalry wear armour, and what coat colours did they have?

2)I know that French Cavalry wore Buff coats but would these have covered the whole of the uniform coat? ie Should I paint them all buff or are the sleeves/skirts exposed?

3) I saw a picture of Dutch Dragoons in fur caps, but was this all Dutch dragoons or did some wear hats as well?

4) Did any French units wear armour?

Thank you for any help :)
Bill T

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Arthur
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Re: Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

Post by Arthur » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:23 pm

Hi Bill

I haven't really researched the Dutch army, so I'll defer to the opinion of those more knowledgeable than I am on the subject of horse armour - or lack of it. From what I've read though, it doesn't look like Dutch troopers wore cuirasses or helmets during the Dutch war. Coat colour was most likely the ubiquitous grey/white with grey, red or blue linings, though a couple of units may have worn red coats. Lawson describes The Garde Te Paard (horse guards) as having blue coats faced blue, and the unit is likely to have worn that uniform throughout William's reign.

Eppinger's dragoons had hats as well as fur caps with cloth bags, so the second Dutch dragoon regiment in existence at the time may well have had both types of headgear as well (on the opposite side, French dragoons were definitely issued with a broad-brimmed felt hat for fatigue duties in addition to their cloth caps).

French troopers usually wore their buff coats under their cloth coats, meaning the former would have been visible only down the front. However, Eugène Leliepvre shows a French cavalryman wearing a sleeveless buff coat over his uniform coat (see pic below). Dunno how common this arrangement was as most period pictures show said buff coat worn either without a cloth coat or under it. Given that there was little standardisation at the time, Leliepvre's interpretation is not implausible, although he also shows the buff coat worn more conventionally under the coat.

ImageImage

Below is a 1678 engraving of a French trooper wearing a long-sleeved buff coat laced down the front and no cloth coat. A royal decree dated November 1671 ordered the line cavalry units to wear grey cloth coats while royal regiments (i.e regiments whose colonels were members of the royal family or princes of royal descent) were to wear blue, although it probably was a while before the new regulations were fully implemented.

Image

And here's the Osprey booklet plate showing cavalrymen in both buff and cloth coats :
Image

The only French cavalry regiment known to have worn armour were the Cuirassiers du Roi. All other horse units seemed to have abandoned metal armour by the 1670's, despite some modern illustrations showing the occasional French trooper wearing a breastplate. Below are two pics of Cuirassiers du Roi troopers during the 1670's :

Image
Image
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Spiraluk
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Re: Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

Post by Spiraluk » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:26 pm

Thank you Arthur for that lengthy and detailed answer. Lots of questions answered, but as usual with a period like this, lots more to find out lol!! :D
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Re: Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

Post by Cheriton » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:24 pm

Arthur:
Given that there was little standardisation at the time, Leliepvre's interpretation is not implausible, although he also shows the buff coat worn more conventionally under the coat.
Thanks for the images. Can advise you where the Leliepvre images came from? Perhaps my very favorite military artist, I often buy books just for his work.

Do not recall having seen these particular ones before.

TIA...

Cheriton
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Arthur
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Re: Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

Post by Arthur » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:26 pm

The pictures I hotlinked are not from a book. They are scans from a uniform plate belonging to a series on the French army from 1660 to 1789 commissioned a couple of decades ago by a now-defunct French military miniatures shop called Le Hussard du Marais. I was fortunate enough to buy some of these high-quality plates when they were still available and the scans above are lifted from plate 6 (French cavalry 1672-1700).
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Re: Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

Post by Cheriton » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:22 am

Arthur wrote:TI was fortunate enough to buy some of these high-quality plates when they were still available and the scans above are lifted from plate 6 (French cavalry 1672-1700).
Fortunate indeed, thanks again for sharing.

BTW, we are vegetarians, so does that keep me safe from humanitarians? 8)

Michael
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Re: Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

Post by Rob Herrick » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:55 am

Cheriton wrote:
Arthur wrote:TI was fortunate enough to buy some of these high-quality plates when they were still available and the scans above are lifted from plate 6 (French cavalry 1672-1700).
Fortunate indeed, thanks again for sharing.

BTW, we are vegetarians, so does that keep me safe from humanitarians? 8)

Michael
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Re: Dutch and French Cavalry 1672-88 Question?

Post by Arthur » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:30 pm

Then again I don't deem vegetarians to be completely human so they should be safe enough.
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know.
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