Thunder on the Danube - 1704

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
User avatar
El Cid
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:27 pm
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by El Cid » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:08 pm

Dear Sergio,

I think you ARE picky,

or you didn't NOTICE the second source I quoted, which relates to the later period, and also relates to the same pictures.

So Dan Schorr has for certain quoted the Danes using the same colour in later years too.


Nobody is perfect, and I'm always trying to help, but beeing picky really turns me off.
Dfogleman2
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:45 pm

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by Dfogleman2 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:42 pm

In a post on TMP, Christian Crogge cites a source from 1726 or 1728 that lists most of the artillery carriage colors in Europe. Denmark was red with yellow. Given the articles from Dan Schorr's website referencing these colors in the 1670s, it looks like red and yellow would have been used in the WSS. Also, red and yellow were the color of the royal house.

Also note that Christian, who knows mid-17th century artillery very, very well, says that the color of Prussian carriages changed from white to blue in 1740.

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=250161
danschorr
Major
Major
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:58 am

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by danschorr » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:51 pm

1628 -1764 Danish Artillery carriages were painted red with yellow metal fittings. The King's cypher was also painted on the carriages in yellow.

I am curious why you asked the question. No Danish artillery accompanied the two auxillary corps in Austrian (Imperial) and Maritime service during the WSS.

I hope this helps.

Dan
User avatar
Belg
Major
Major
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Collegno (Turin - Italy)
Contact:

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by Belg » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:01 pm

jezamonos wrote:Hi belg,
Even source material can be wrong. You need to go with what works for you and also base it on general consensus. Hence my "think" comment. I don't want to categorically state something which could be wrong.

A source for Prussian dark blue regarding the 'source situation’ on Prussian artillery which i used was drawn heavily on the single most valuable 4 volume work by Malinowsky & Bonin, Geschichte der brandenburg–preussischen Artillerie, vol. II, Berlin 1841. It provides most detailed descriptions on the evolution on barrel and carriage design, but comes without images. This book is for the seven years war but close enough in my eyes.
O.K., many thanks.
Cheers,
Sergio
User avatar
Belg
Major
Major
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Collegno (Turin - Italy)
Contact:

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by Belg » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:14 pm

He,
About the wood color of the British artillery:
I tried to contact by mail the Royal Artillery Museum, and the very friendly Mr. Les Smith (Collection Manager) told me the following:

"Thank you for your enquiry regarding the wood colour. I’m afraid I can’t find any definitive answer as I have heard that they could have been red, grey or just natural wood with oil applied".
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

He then suggested me to try to contact the Royal Armouries at Fort Nelson, which I did.
If I will have an answer, I put it in this topic.
Cheers,
Sergio
User avatar
Belg
Major
Major
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Collegno (Turin - Italy)
Contact:

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by Belg » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:14 pm

El Cid wrote:Dear Sergio,

I think you ARE picky,

or you didn't NOTICE the second source I quoted, which relates to the later period, and also relates to the same pictures.

So Dan Schorr has for certain quoted the Danes using the same colour in later years too.


Nobody is perfect, and I'm always trying to help, but beeing picky really turns me off.
Dear El Cid,
I'm sorry, I was distracted, in fact I had missed the second reference.
O.K., many thanks for the clarification.
Yes, nobody is perfect, me too!
Cheers,
User avatar
Belg
Major
Major
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Collegno (Turin - Italy)
Contact:

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by Belg » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:37 pm

danschorr wrote:1628 -1764 Danish Artillery carriages were painted red with yellow metal fittings. The King's cypher was also painted on the carriages in yellow.

I am curious why you asked the question. No Danish artillery accompanied the two auxillary corps in Austrian (Imperial) and Maritime service during the WSS.

I hope this helps.

Dan
He Dan,
the battle order of the imperial army at the Battle of Luzzara, Italy, list six Danish battalions and at the bottom there is the following note:

"* Danish infantry assignments are not known. The univs involved are 3/Zeeland, 3/Prins Kristia, 3/Prinz Georg, 3/Droningen Liv, 3/Jutland, and 3/Marine."

Since I did not found any other informations, I thought that the Danish regiments, like most of those of other states, they could be equipped with some batteries of light guns.

Regarding the uniform of the Artillery, I found this note in the book "The Armies and Uniforms of Marlborough's Wars Vol I", p. 38:

"Artillery. The Danish artillery regiment wore a violet coat lined green."
danschorr
Major
Major
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:58 am

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by danschorr » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:05 pm

Sergio,

There were 7 Danish battalions in Italy. At the Battle of Luzzara, the following Danish battalions took part:

Dronnings Livregiment
Prins Christian
Prins Carl
Prins Georg
Jyske
Sjællandske

The seventh battalion, Marine, was in garrison at Borgoforte.

The Danes did not have any regimental artillery with them. If such guns were assigned, they probably came from the Austrian Artillery Train. Each would have had one or two Austrian gunners with the remainder of the crew being supplied by the supported Danish infantry battalions.

Dan
User avatar
Belg
Major
Major
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Collegno (Turin - Italy)
Contact:

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by Belg » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:54 am

danschorr wrote:Sergio,

There were 7 Danish battalions in Italy. At the Battle of Luzzara, the following Danish battalions took part:

Dronnings Livregiment
Prins Christian
Prins Carl
Prins Georg
Jyske
Sjællandske

The seventh battalion, Marine, was in garrison at Borgoforte.

The Danes did not have any regimental artillery with them. If such guns were assigned, they probably came from the Austrian Artillery Train. Each would have had one or two Austrian gunners with the remainder of the crew being supplied by the supported Danish infantry battalions.

Dan
Hi Dan,
many thanks for the very useful informations about the Danes.
Having discovered that they had also fought in Italy, as well as being present at Blenheim, I have been considering purchasing, next year, two Danish Front Rank battalions, to flank them in our wargames either to the Austrians and the British.
Because by the rules of our wargame it is possible to deploy a light gun for every two Battalions, I thought to give one also to the Danes, or my allied army would have a gun less than the Sandro's French. (Sandro is my son, the French warchief).
To be combined with the Austrians: I can assign to the command of the Danes an austrian gun with Austrian gunners, so the wood part of the gun will be painted dark yellow.
And with the British? By any chance, do you know if the Danes at Blenheim they had supplied with english guns? Or with austrian guns, as in Italy?
In the order of battle of the allied army, which I found in the Osprey book "Blenheim 1704", are reported, among others, the regiments "Prince Charles" and "Prince George" (in the Ally first line). Are they for the case the same regiments "Prins Carl" and "Prins Georg" present in Italy? The names sounds the sames.
In this case, by painting my miniatures with the colors of these two regiments, it would not be wrong to play them together with the Austrians or the British, depending on the scenario (Italy or Flanders).

Meny thanks for your much appreciated help.
Cheers,
Sergio
danschorr
Major
Major
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:58 am

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by danschorr » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:22 pm

Sergio,

A Danish infantry regiment at the time consisted of 18 line companies and a grenadier company with the exception of the Garden til Fods which had 2 grenadier companies. The two regiments you mention, Prins Carl and Prins Georg provide 6 companies each to the auxiliary corps in Imperial service. Each of these regiments provided their remaining 12 line companies and grenadier company to the auxiliary corps in the service of the Maritime Powers. To answer your question, yes they would have worn the same uniform whether in Imperial or Maritime Powers’ service.

If you provide a regimental gun to those in Maritime service, I suspect that the gunners would be either English or Dutch depending on the army’s train of artillery.

I hope this helps.

Dan
User avatar
Belg
Major
Major
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Collegno (Turin - Italy)
Contact:

Re: Thunder on the Danube - 1704

Post by Belg » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:30 pm

danschorr wrote:Sergio,

A Danish infantry regiment at the time consisted of 18 line companies and a grenadier company with the exception of the Garden til Fods which had 2 grenadier companies. The two regiments you mention, Prins Carl and Prins Georg provide 6 companies each to the auxiliary corps in Imperial service. Each of these regiments provided their remaining 12 line companies and grenadier company to the auxiliary corps in the service of the Maritime Powers. To answer your question, yes they would have worn the same uniform whether in Imperial or Maritime Powers’ service.

If you provide a regimental gun to those in Maritime service, I suspect that the gunners would be either English or Dutch depending on the army’s train of artillery.

I hope this helps.

Dan
He Dan,

many thanks, yes, it is very useful to me.
Cheers,
Sergio
Post Reply