Walloon and Flemish regiments?

[Justin Penwith]

I have C.S. Grant's Armies and Uniforms of Marlborough's Wars Volume 1 and in the entry for the Dutch army, he alludes to Walloon (but not Flemish) regiments that wore green coats, but his regimental listing does not include these formations.

I am trying to determine what, if any, regiments were raised in the Spanish Netherlands for operations in the WSS and their colorings. Unfortunately, again, I am unable to make a purchase of a resource at this time, so if there happens to be a free source, please point me in the right direction...or better yet, if someone has a painted collection of these units, then that would be great too.

One would think that after all these years, there would exist a single source for this information...

Edit:

And I am meaning Walloon or Flemish regiments that served with the Dutch and/or English forces, not with Austrians, Swedes, etc.

[Arthur]

C.A Sapherson lists three Walloon regiments raised in 1702 for service in the Dutch army. They were Caris, Jaymert (1712 Lynden) and Trogne (1705 Delsuperche, 1710 Spaan) : all three were disbanded in 1713.

Dunno about coat colour and facings : green lined crimson is usually listed as the uniform worn by all Walloon foot in Imperial service, but I have no idea whether Walloons in Dutch pay would have used the same colour combination. Mats and Motorway may be able to shed some light on the matter, though.

[wdrenth]

These three Walloon regiments of foot, together with a regiment of dragoons, formed part of an augmentation to the Anglo-Dutch forces operating in the Low Countries in 1703 (given commitment and resources allocated it would be more just to refer to Dutch-and-some-Anglo forces ). This augmentation of 1703 consisted of 20,000 men, the cost of maintaining them divided equally between England and the Dutch Republic.

Part of this augmentation was formed by troops raised in the prince-bishopric of Liege (i.e. three regiments of foot and one regiment of dragoons, altogether about 3,000 men. Liege was then a state within the Holy Roman Empire, and not part of the Spanish-Netherlands). The remainder was formed by regiments provided by a host of German princes. So, in some sources these Walloon troops are referred to as troops from Liege.

The three regiments of foot were somehow considered part of the Dutch army, as the topic started indicated, the regiment of dragoons was somehow considered part of the English army. Though England and the Dutch Republic each paid for 10,000 (i.e. half), the actual division of the troops over the English and Dutch army was not that neat: 13,500 were considered part of the English army, the remaining 6,500 were part of the Dutch army. But that had probably more to do with administration than anything else.

The fate is the regiment of dragoons after disbandment is interesting, since the Protestant officers were granted English half-pay in 1714. This was quite unusual for a subsidy regiment, but it may be because these officers were actually Huguenots. However, I haven't checked this.

[Justin Penwith]

Excellent and thank you to the both of you.

@wdrenth,

Do know what the regimental colorings were or should I go with Arthur's suggestion of green coats lined in red as those were the standard for Imperial Walloon troops? How about the dragoon's colorings?

[Arthur]

The green coats lined crimson aren't really a suggestion of mine, Justin : this is just the colour combo usually attributed to the Wallon infantry regiments raised for imperial service. I have no idea what the Walloons in Dutch service wore and it is even quite possible that their uniforms were not recorded given the brief lifespan of these three infantry units.

Grant may have mistakenly given them the same uniform as their fellow countrymen serving the Holy German Empire, or alternatively he may have had access to reliable sources showing they did indeed wear the same green coats as the Walloons in imperial service : I just don't know. I have no evidence one way or the other, which doesn't mean others with better sources won't be able to answer your query.

[Justin Penwith]

Arthur,

I only meant "suggest" in the sense that you proposed that coloring as a possibility due to the facts that you describe, not that you were indicating it with some authority.

I do appreciate your input. Hopefully, someone will know of or be able to quote (or paraphrase) sources which would provide this information. I'd think that somewhere in Liege there is a source for this information, due to the city and the province of Limbourg.

Funny, I am just trying to pin this down so I can properly paint up a few units to go with my imagi-nation campaign....which is set in the region.

[Motorway]

The Regiment under Col. Henry de Caris lasted at least until his death in 1736. I'll try to dig up more but this can take some time.

[wdrenth]

Henry de Caris became colonel of another regiment in 1723, until his death in 1736: http://www.milwiki.nl/dutchregiments/in ... Inf.IR600a This is probably the regiment referred to by Motorway. This was another regiment than the one raised by Caris in late 1702, and part of the augmentation of 20,000.

I forgot the mention that these four regiments from Liege were actually not regiments raised by the prince-bishopric of Liege itself. (As compared to the regiments hired out to the Maritime Powers by, for example, Prussia and Hessen-Kassel.) Liege sided with the French, and the bishopric was occupied by the Grand Alliance in 1702. The regiments were raised by contribution and I think they are not to be considered part of the standing army of Liege. It is unlikely these war-formed regiments survived the reductions after the end of war. Unless taken over by some other paymaster of course.

[Motorway]

Yes, Wienand you are right of course.

The 1702 regiment probably lasted tot 1723, and it could be that de Caris was transferred to the Nassau Walen Regiment then.
http://www.milwiki.nl/dutchregiments/in ... Sub.IR-LuB

Maybe there's something on the regiments in the Jassenboek, but I have to look it up in my archive.

Edwin

[obriendavid]

What a fantastic site!
Someone has obviously gone to a lot of time and effort to collate all this material. Thanks for linking it.
Cheers
Dave

[Ben Waterhouse]

What a fantastic site!
Someone has obviously gone to a lot of time and effort to collate all this material. Thanks for linking it.
Cheers
Dave

Absolutely, meat and drink for us wargamers.

[flick40]

Heres an old topic on Green Coats

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1707