Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

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yar68
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Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by yar68 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:09 am

I'm not quite sure how the correct (if there is a correct) way to paint up this unit of Dragoons for the Jacobite army for the Boyne, but I've gone for grey with yellow cuffs, more pics on the blog!

http://onelover-ray.blogspot.co.uk/2012 ... goons.html

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Ray

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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by obriendavid » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:42 pm

These look very nice Ray, where did you get the idea of the fur caps from?
I believe these are shown in an illustration in McNally's book on Aughrim but they have buff/yellow jackets but I haven't seen it yet. The only piece of info I've read is from 'Illustrations, historical and genealogical, of King James's Irish army list, 1689' but they are only mentioned in there as being raised in Carrigaholt by Daniel III Viscount Clare and called the dragoons Buy due to their buff/yellow cuffs and called the flower of Jame's army but there is no mention of them having fur caps. I hope the caps and yellow jackets are correct as it would make a nice change to the army.
Daniel fought at the Boyne and died shortly afterwards (perhaps of wounds recieved?) after the war his two sons Daniel and Charles went to France to join King James. Daniel IV Viscount Clare formed an infantry regiment which became part of the Wild Geese and Charles V Viscount Clare commanded a regiment The Queen's Dismounted dragoons so I wonder if the illustration has been mistaken by that regiment?
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by Redmist1122 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:11 pm

Ray,
Very nice! I just finished a unit of Polish Dragoons.
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by Rebel » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:10 pm

Ray,

as Clare's were one of the original "tranche" of units raised, I'd have gone for red coats and yellow distinctions. The thing (IMHO) to stay well clear of is this whole "yellow coat" fiasco. AFAIK the only "evidence" for a yellow coat is a painting owned by Harman Murtagh which he includes in his book on the Boyne that was produced for the Boyne Valley Foods Co. The reference he cites is a painting in his possession that was commissioned by his father, the late Diarmuid Murtagh. To the best of my knowledge the only yellow coated unit to appear in the British Army was the Caroline Lord Admiral's Regiment (c.1670) whose proprietor was James, Duke of York. Proprietors tended to stay clear of the colour as it was so expensive to produce and it only really became popular as a facing colour as red/yellow were the Stuart colours and after the Restoration there were a lot of troops in red venetian coats available.

Dave - Irish dragoons (of whatever persuasion) generally fought as applicable i.e. in defence dismounted in offence/reserve mounted. All dragoons were equipped with a "cropped" brimmed hat and a fur cap. On campaign the hat would have been most likely worn as it was cheaper to produce/replace than the cap.

Hope this helps,


Mike
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by yar68 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:55 pm

Thanks for all the comments chaps, I chose the grey coat mainly because I've already got a few red coated yellow cuffed Cavalry already, (for both sides) so going along with the uniform of Galmoy's Horse grey coat red cuffed, I thought I'd try grey cuffed yellow.
The idea for painting them up with caps came from a picture of Dongan's Dragoons that I found on a War of the grand Alliance, Facebook page, for all you Facebookers out there here's a link.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/323959627674842/

It's well worth a look as most of the guys running the site are all period rein-actors.
Ray

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http://onelover-ray.blogspot.com/
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by obriendavid » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:26 pm

Ray, that's a great find, I never thought of searching on Facebook.
For those of you who aren't members of FB it's worth joining for all the pics and links to different sites.
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Dave
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by Redmist1122 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:50 pm

Ray,
Great find...posted my request to joing the FB page.
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by yar68 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:37 am

There's also this group about The Monmouth Rebellion......

https://www.facebook.com/groups/312977482100141/
Ray

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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by Redmist1122 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:30 am

Ray,
Thanks!
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by obriendavid » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:04 am

Rebel wrote: as Clare's were one of the original "tranche" of units raised, I'd have gone for red coats and yellow distinctions. Mike
Mike, I've always been under the impression that it was only troops officially raised for the 'British' army that were uniformed with red jackets and that the newly raised units were basically in civilian or locally produced outfits until the 'grey' French uniforms started to appear. I was always very sceptical about Clare's being in yellow jackets and the infantry unit that was sent to France was the first raised in 1684 which is why it was in red with yellow cuffs but the 2nd battalion raised by Charles was much later, after the revolution and I wouldn't have thought they would have had red jackets. I'm happy to be proved wrong as I would prefer to have them in red but at the moment my plan is to have them in grey with yelllow cuffs.
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by Rebel » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:24 am

Dave - and apologies to Ray for the hijacking - one thing that has just hit me as I read your comment is that whilst the French sources quote "coats" etc and we generally take the majority of these to be the good old gris-mesle they are cut differently for the different arms of service. By that I mean that horse, dragoons and foot would all get their own pattern kit, it's not "uniform" if you excuse the pun. To the best of my knowledge, no French dragoons wore the grey which was "standard" for both the French foot and the cheveaulegers. That said, and purism aside it's a wargames unit and for every rule you can easily argue an exception.

- Mike.
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by yar68 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:29 pm

Don't worry about hi-jacking the post, it's all interesting stuff!!! 8)
Ray

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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by obriendavid » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:30 pm

Mike, please feel free to add in any information that you have, it is all interesting! I was under the impression that the French supplied material and not actual uniforms. If they supplied uniforms for set units then as you said, French dragoons didn't wear grey it was usually red with yellow or red facings or a few regiments had green uniforms and the Royal ones blue.

It's the depth of knowledge that people are willing to share on this site is what I really enjoy and in virtually every case disagreements are conducted in a gentlemanly manner.
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by Captain of Dragoons » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:43 pm

Hello Ray

The Facebook links are great finds, thanks for posting.

cheers
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Re: Lord Clare's Dragoon's?

Post by thiepval » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:10 pm

Hi
I was just wondering if it was possible that Clare's Dragoons could have recieved cast off uniforms from some French unit. Osprey's ' Louis the XIV's Army' shows the dragoon regiment Tesse' in yellow coats which they exchanged for red coats in 1685. Also i remember reading somewhere about Clares dragoon's having the nickname of 'butterfly dragoons'.
My only reason for putting forward this idea is because i have already painted my 15mm Clare's regiment in yellow. I am in the process of doing both armies in 28mm, and although they look quite pretty and unusual in yellow, i will probably do them in grey with yellow facings

regards billy.
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