German Regiments in Anglo Dutch Army

[MNFS]

Hi There,

Does anyone know of any of the German regiments in the Williamite army during the NYW?

I'm looking to add a couple to my army and I wondered if anyone knows of these regiments and there uniforms/standards?

Did Hesse-Kassel provide any regiments?

Many Thanks,

Mark

[wdrenth]

hello Mark,

Where do you want to start? The number of German troops paid by the Dutch Republic and/or England was quite large: about 14,000 in 1688, rising to 38,000 in 1696.

Main suppliers of subsidy troops were Brandenburg, Hanover, Celle, Hessen-Kassel, and also Wolfenbuttel (future Brunswick). German states that supplied less troops were Sachsen-Gotha, Saxony, Munster and Holstein-Gottorp.

With respect to the infantry, complete regiments were seldom hired to the Dutch Republic/England. Rather, companies were detached from existing regiments and formed into a battalion that was sent into foreign service. The other part of the regiment, often also a battalion, would remain at home, or would serve elsewhere (against the Turks in Hungary or also against France (either on the Rhine or also in Flanders)). The complicating factor here is that this detached battalion was often designated as regiment.

Brandenburg, for example, signed a treaty with the Dutch in August 1688 to supply 6,000 men: two regiments of horse, and nine 'regiments' of foot. These regiments were, as said, actually battalions detached from true regiments.

Hope this serves a bit as an introduction. Let me know if you want to know more.

cheers,
Wienand

[Russian James]

Opposite side of the coin, were there any German units in Jacobite service (other than Zurlauben in French service)?

[wdrenth]

Nope

One thing you need for hiring foreign troops is gold, and an awful lot of that metal. An alternative would be to borrow money on the financial market. But I doubt any money broker, how catholic or Jacobite he might have been, would dare to borrow a large sum to James without the chance of being repaid.

[MNFS]

Thanks for the information Wienand.

Do you have any details (uniforms/banners) for any of the battalions supplied by the German states?

Best,

Mark

[Friedrich August I.]

.... German states that supplied less troops were Sachsen-Gotha, Saxony.........
cheers,
Wienand

On behalf of Saxony I have to say that the troops contributed to the call of the Emperor were commited against France along the Rhine and only Nov.1702 - May1704 Saxony sent troops into pay of the Emperor again.
The remainder of time all Saxon Forces were fighting against the Swedes in Poland in the GNW.

Besides, in Saxony the term Regiment MENT Regiment.
At this time the term of Battalion was not in use.

Cheers,
Günter

[wdrenth]

On behalf of Saxony I have to say that the troops contributed to the call of the Emperor were commited against France along the Rhine and only Nov.1702 - May1704 Saxony sent troops into pay of the Emperor again.
The remainder of time all Saxon Forces were fighting against the Swedes in Poland in the GNW.

Besides, in Saxony the term Regiment MENT Regiment.
At this time the term of Battalion not in use.

Cheers,
Günter

The Dutch Republic did sign a treaty with Saxony in October 1693 for two regiments of horse.

During the WSS the Maritime Powers signed a treaty with Saxony in April 1707. According to this treaty one regiment of horse, two of dragoons and four of foot (all of battalion size) entered Anglo-Dutch pay. Additional units were hired in 1709.

Note that 1707 nicely follows on Saxony's, temporary, withdrawal from the GNW.

According to my notes, Saxon regiments of foot had a strength of sixteen large companies. In numbers it had more or less the strength of two English or Dutch battalions. The 'regiments' entering Anglo-Dutch service in 1707 were single battalion organised in twelve companies.

Altogether about 9,000 to 10,000 troops from Saxony were in Anglo-Dutch service.

cheers,
Wienand

[Friedrich August I.]

Wienand,

You are right of course, I only wanted to point out that the Saxons were'nt commited in the time of the NYW.

At the beginning of Saxon involvement in the Great Northern War in February 1700, an infantry regiment contained 15 companies. There was also a grenadier company, but it is unclear if the grenadier company was one of the fifteen or an additional company. Each company had an authorized strength of 150 including a prima plan (company staff) of 17.
The regimental staff (prima plan) consisted of 21 individuals.
In late1701 and early 1702, the number of infantry regiments was increased and the regimental composition was changed. Each infantry regiment consisted of a regimental staff, 12 musketeer companies and 1 grenadier company. There are two “Etats” or States for an infantry regiment at this time. One has a total strength of 1,169, while the other has
a total strength of 1,232. The number of so-called “combatants” in each company is the same in both.
The infantry regiments that were part of the auxiliary corps in the service of the Maritime Powers 1707-1713 were made up of 12 companies of 66 men each with a regimental strength of 825 including officers and staff; however, because the actual strength seldom exceeded 660 they were considered battalions.
Dan Schorr, 'Notes on the Saxon Army 1700-1712'

If you need more Saxon Informations I'm willing to help.

Cheers,
Günter

[wdrenth]

hello Günter,

I found this snippet in the Journal for the House of Commons, on the army estimates for 1693 (25 November 1692):

For the Pay of a Regiment of Horse, a Regiment of Dragoons, and a Regiment of Foot, which his Majesty is to have from the Duke of Saxony, in Lieu of the Three Regiments of Sax Gotha, which were under his Majesty's Pay this last Campaign, and which are now sent home, being in a very ill Condition

I think this was never put into effect, as Saxon troops don't show up in any army estimate of later yeras. But it is interesting I think.

I will contact you offline for some Saxony details, thank you for the offer

cheers,
Wienand

[danschorr]

Günter and Wienand,

My research on the Saxon Army Army indicates the following:

Only two Saxon cavalry regiments, Bünau and Reibolt, were in Dutch service from 1694-97.

The Saxons provided a considerable force, most of their army, to the campaigns on the Upper Rhine 1688-94. Thereafter, their forces campaigned in Hungary.

In addition to the Saxon units in Imperial service 1702-1704 and 1707-1713. A small Saxon force was in Imperial service on the Upper Rhine 1705-1707 ( IR Seiffertitz (12 cos), IR Weissenfels (8 cos)and IR Wackerbarth (4 cos)). They participated in the siege of Hagenau in 1705 and were part of the garrison of the town when the French retook the place in 1706. They became prisoners of war, but were exchanged and returned to Saxony in 1707.

Mark,

A great deal of information is available in readily available sources for many of the "German" units in Dutch pay during the NYW. It would be helpful in providing details if you could specify particular regiments.

Hope this is helpful.

Regards,

Dan

[Friedrich August I.]

Dan,

great to know that you are still out there
Thank you for this clarifications which would have taken for me a long time to extract them from your notes

Thank You 'My Master'

Cheers,
Günter

[MNFS]

Hi Dan,

My knowledge is so poor that I do not know of ANY German regiments/battalions in Dutch pay.

I would be grateful if you could let me know of any and what uniforms and banners they had!

Many Thanks,

Mark

[danschorr]

Mark,

Get yourself a copy of Sapherson's "The Dutch Army of William III."
It is available from Caliver Books. It contains the names of the subsidy regiments along with some basic uniform details.

Dan

[yar68]

Mark,

Take a look at the link below, its from the book Dan suggested, I've tidied it up into a colour coded file, you may find it useful.

http://onelover-ray.blogspot.co.uk/2011 ... llies.html

And take a peep at this list too, its got some German units in it as well.

http://onelover-ray.blogspot.co.uk/sear ... nes%20List

[Churchill]

Ray.