OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

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maciek
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by maciek » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:17 am

BTW.
Do we know exact Allied OOB for this battle ?
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by Dfogleman2 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:41 pm

This OOB says that it is for Steenkirque but gives the date as 1693. Further, it shows the Elector of Bavaria as a commander and several Bavarian regiments, including the footgards in the OOB. I believe that several of these regiments were in the Rhineland in 1692, but did fight at Neerwinden.

http://www.digam.net/image.php?file=dok ... jpg&b=1200

Perhaps the OOB is for Neerwinden? Or it is not accurate for either battle? Or perhaps the 1693 date is a mistake and I am wrong about the Bavarians.

Just a thought.

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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by Graf Bretlach » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:07 pm

I have seen a few OdB for the allies, I'm just (last night) working on Edward d’Auvergne's, seems straightforward except all those Spanish units, and General placements need a bit of work.
I would be interested in what other people have.
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by wdrenth » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:24 am

I have compiled a list of regiments from the British isles on my blog: http://britisharmylineages.blogspot.nl/ ... -1693.html

Graf Bretlach came with the question if the Duke of Leinster's Regiment (future 7th Dragoon Guards) shouldn't be there. This regiment was part of the Confederate forces in Flanders in 1693, but took no part in the battle at Neerwinden. According to the regimental history by Richard Cannon, the regiment was busy levying contributions. Few weeks earlier, however, the regiment was engaged in the skirmish at d'Otignies/Dottignies.

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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by danschorr » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:31 pm

Graf Bretlach,

I'd be happy to try to help with the Spanish units. PM me your questions.

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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by Graf Bretlach » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:57 pm

Thank you Wdrenth and Dan, I may come to you with more questions.

As for the 7th DG, they appeared in Auvergne's OdB and also listed in Walton, both as Leinster, I'm surprised they were not present, but good to know, I'll make a note on my Auvergne OdB.

I have the regimental history (i have most of them) but not got around to reading all the 1693 entries yet. anyway at this point I am looking at the many lists for this year, identifying the regiments and personalities.

hopefully when the website is up you will both be frequent contributors.

Dannie can you point me to the entry on the Marburg archiv site for that image, failed to spot it last night.
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by Graf Bretlach » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:21 pm

Wienand, you have a new order :)
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by wdrenth » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:55 am

Graf Bretlach,

The OOB's given in Walton, and d'Auvergne, are usually the regiments present in the army at the opening of the campaign. Not all would form part of the actual forces engaged at battles, being in garrison for example.

Look forward seeing your website.

best regards,
Wienand
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by wdrenth » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:58 am

Graf Bretlach wrote:Wienand, you have a new order :)
I have sent you a pm on this :-)
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by maciek » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:53 am

I've got only '93 and '94 from d'Auvergne.
Do you have other tomes (as pdfs of course) ?
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by Graf Bretlach » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:32 pm

Maciek

I also have 1691, but can't remember where from (no google watermark) maybe internet archive? I'm trying to track down other years, because they are an excellent source of information.

Wienand, yes I realise that, most oobs are "camp oobs" of a particular date, but are usually the only solid data from which to construct who was at a particular battle. What i'm doing is presenting the documents in a modern format, as is, but with the regiments and personalities identified, which is sometimes very difficult if not impossible for this period, but keeps me amused.
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by Churchill » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:43 pm

Ray.
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by wdrenth » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:16 am

hi Ray,

Yes, those nobles with their multitude of titles!

Meinhardt Schomberg, the eldest son of Frederick Schomberg, was created Duke of Leinster in 1691. This was a reward for his services in Ireland (Boyne and Limerick).
Charles Schomberg, the younger son of Frederick Schomberg, succeeded his father as 2nd Duke of Schomberg after the latter was killed at the Boyne in 1690. Charles later commanded troops in Piedmont that were paid by England/Dutch Republic, and was killed at the battle of Marsaglia in October 1693. Meinhardt then succeeded as the 3rd Duke of Schomberg.
So indeed, at the time of Neerwinden, a bit before Marsaglia, the future 7th DG could be found listed as Schomberg's Horse (if correct without any Duke), or as Leinster's Horse (with or without Duke).

As to the regiment itself, that came into existence in November and December 1688. Initially it were simply troops of horse were raised in Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire by the 4th Earl of Devonshire (future 1st Duke). I have not studied this person in much detail, but I think he had much influence in those counties, and the troops were probably levied from his clientele and their servants. The initial troops would most likely have looked like a rabble of armed men, than anything regular :-)

The troops were placed on the regular establishment and regimented in 31 December 1688. The regiment was given to Lord Cavendish, the son of the 1st Duke and future 2nd Duke.

cheers,
Wienand
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by danschorr » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:20 am

Graf Bretlach, you might already have this information, but the units with the Duke of Würtemberg’s Corps were detached from the Main Army on 1/11 July 1693 and were not present at Neerwinden.

Duke of Würtemberg’s Corps
(13 battalions and 24 squadrons)
July 1693
Infantry – 13 battalions

Garden (Danish) 1 Bn
Donningens (Danish) 1 Bn
Prins Christians (Danish) 1 Bn
Prins Georg (Danish) 1 Bn
Jylands (Danish) 1 Bn
Earl of Bath’s Foot (English) 1 Bn
Argyle’s Foot (Scot) 1 Bn
Torsay (Dutch) 1 Bn
L’Ecluse (Dutch) 1 Bn
Bernstorf (Celle) 1 Bn
Rhinegrave (Dutch) 1 Bn
Wynbergen (Dutch) 1 Bn
La Motte (Celle) 1 Bn (Note: Sichart says de Charles(Carles) (Celle))

Cavalry and Dragoons – 24 squadrons

LaForest Horse (Danish) 2 Sqd
Duke of Leinster’ Horse (English) 2 Sqd
Brenneke Horse (Celle) 2 Sqd
Bothmer Dragoons (Celle) 3 Sqd

15 squadrons remain unidentified. These could be Dutch, Spanish or possibly Brandenburg. Do you have a copy of the plan after page 38 in d’Auvergne? As is usual with Google, my copy is folded. This might provide clues as to the identity of these 15 squadrons.

Sources in addition to d’Auvergne:

Jahn,J.H.F. “Det danske Auxiliarcorps i engelsk Tjeneste fra 1689 til 1697”. Kjøbenhavn, 1840.

Sichart, “Geschichte der Königlich-Hannoverschen Armee”.Vol.1. Hannover 1866.

Hope this is helpful.

Dan
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Re: OOB for French Forces at Landen/Neerwinden?

Post by Churchill » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:51 am

Ray.
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