Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
lee sherman
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Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by lee sherman » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:38 pm

Hi all

I am painting Bavarian Infantry regiments for league of Augsburg and have a few questions regarding informs as I have 2 different descriptions..

1. Infantry cornflower blue coats, cuffs of various colours all regiments breeches brown beige buff? All regiments Stockings white?

2. Infantry cornflower blue coats, cuffs various colours all regiments breeches cornflower blue? All regiments Stockings white?

1. Officers... Completely dressed in higher quality cornflower blue coats breeches and stockings, silver white lace? Sash of blue

2. Officers... Coats and breeches in high quality cornflower blue, silver white lace, sash of silver and blue, stockings white cuffs as regiment

3. Officers in reverse colours??

Thanks everyone
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by julesav » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:11 pm

I have a painted unit of Bavarians in cornflower blue coats, purple facings and red trousers and stockings. I think I took the uniform info from WRG's 'Pike to Shot' book by Charles Grant.
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by lee sherman » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:48 pm

Do you know what regiment it is?. And have u done a a flag for them

Thanks

Lee
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by El Cid » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:08 pm

Should be Steinau, but the purple cuffs are irritating

no Bavarian regiment had purple cuffs
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by danschorr » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:46 pm

This might help:

1682 Degenfeld (pearl gray with dark lilac facings), 1683 La Rosa (light lilac facings).
1682 La Perouse (blue with violet facings), 1683 Rummel (violet facings)
Richard Knötel, “Handbuch der Uniformkunde”, 1960.
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by lee sherman » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:04 pm

Nice I shall see if I can find the pics anywhere.. Purple I have read that the cornflower blue used to go a purple colour when exposed to the elements maybe the cuffs are cornflower blue to??

Lee
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by El Cid » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:27 pm

Purple and violet or lilac are different colours in the late 17th century

purple is in a much more reddish hue

violet or lilac are blueish

cornflower blue fades to bluemorant
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by lee sherman » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:08 am

Was the Bavarian army split into to theatres then.. Flanders and Italy?
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by Friedrich August I. » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:16 am

IMHO they fought only in Italy and Southern Germany as they allied themselves with the French. But I may be wrong.
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"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by Dfogleman2 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:45 am

Bavarian troops fought at Neerwinden in the 9YW and in the Netherlands during the WSS following the disaster at Blenheim. The post-Blenheim units were mostly cuirassiers, but the Leibgarde and Kurprinz infantry regiments were there, IIRC.
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by Adam Hayes » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:46 pm

Is cornflower blue correct for this period? I remember reading that the lighter shade only became t he norm after SYW coats faded with long use.
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by Dfogleman2 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:00 pm

Cornflower blue (or something close to it) woud be correct for the period. There are some contemporary paintings that show this.
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by Dfogleman2 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:47 pm

For 186 Euros, most of the answers to your questions can be found in this folio of plates and accompanying text by Anton Hoffman:

http://www.zinnfigur.com/product_info.p ... 1d&ID=3115
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by El Cid » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:14 pm

Not only because Maximilian of Bavaria was a relative of Vittorio Amadeo II of Savoy he supported him with soldiers during the 9 years war.

A Bavarian contingent marched to Northern Italy and participated in the campaigns of 1691 to 1696.

The were too late for Staffarda, but notably the infantry regiments of the Guards (Leibregiment) and Steinau fought at Marsaglia 1693.

Source: Leonhard Winkler's book about the "Bavarian army during the campaigns in Piemont from 1691 to 1696", Munich 1886.


I also have some of the plates of the Hoffman book you quoted, Dfogleman2, so maybe I could help any further.
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Re: Bavarian Infantry 1690s 1700s

Post by CWK » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:09 am

Difficult topic. :) There has been some debate about the colours already in the 19th century and the historical tradition in the archives is fragmentary. :x


I am using Karl Staudinger as my mine source. He was colonel and in charge of the Royal War Archive of the Bavarian Army - the following info I can get from his book "History of the Electoral Bavarian Army unter Elector Max II. Emmanuel":



May 12th 1683
"Generalerlass wegen der Soldatenröcke" / General decree concerning the soldiers' coats, regulating the colour of the coats:

- Berlo and Degenfeld: gris perle
- Puech: green
- Montfort: Dark grey
- Perouse: violet
- Steinau: red
- Preysing: yellow

It has been debated if the decree concerned the colour of the coat or the cuffs, but a order to the Hofkammer (November 3th 1683) states green coats with yellow cuffs for Puech. :roll:

March 5th 1684:
All Regiments gain blue Coats, except Puech and Montfort which keep grey coats.
Colours of the cuffs (final colours determined till March 14th):
Puech: blue
Montfort: blue
Steinau: red
Rummel: violet
Preysing: yellow
La Rosa: "Vilamort" = lilac
Mercy: white

- trousers: made of leather, colours on paintings: red, blue or grey
- socks/stockings: plain/striped

Officers:
- coat ornated with braids
- wearing a cuirass in combat
- coat with reversed colours
- sash: white&blue taffeta with silver/golden fringes

Armament:
- plug bayonett since 1683
- pike disappears out of service in 1686

Grenadiers
- since 1685 in an own company
- blue coats and red cuffs
- red stockings

NCOs
- light grey coats and blue cuffs
- red stockings

1694:
Regiments sent into the Netherlands (Leibregiment, Kurprinz, Harthausen) get a newly made uniform
- Officers and soldiers get blue coats
- Colour of the cuffs: Leibregiement: white, Kurprinz: blue, Harthausen: "lederfarben" - meaning buff?
- Officers' Sashs: Leibregiment: "like at Mainz", Kurprinz: blue with golden fringes, Harthausen: blue with white fringes

1698:
- Blue coats and trousers
- exception: Leibregiment with white trousers
- grenadiers have grey coats with blue trousers
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