Flames of War

[barr7430]

Pat,

thanks for umpiring David and I through that first pass at FoW. I confess I would probably have not even got round to a game with the rules if I had been in the situation of reading it all myself and then setting up the game. I saw from Brians site that your British were continuing their lucky streak although when I was commanding them it was pure skill all the way

All Fallschirmjager should now take some kind of FEAR TEST when facing the Jockos!!!!
Next outing I will bring my Germans down and we will watch the Guards march double time for the channel coast it will be 1940 all over again

B

[barr7430]

Visited DTS Models in EK tonight where they run a FoW evening twice a week. Very helpful guys who walked me through my latest `triumph' ! Again the unlucky victims were Fallschirmjager who were pummelled by a Mid War `Italian Theatre' British force. Love those Churchills!

For a fun and fast game I am further converted to FoW.

B

[barr7430]

Barr7430
On the subject of FoW lack of realism. I share some of your views.

Biggest lack of realism - altenate turns coupled with
Company level games where two platoons of infantry have tanks support, divisional artillery support, flak and AT support. In other words a Division in microcosm. NOT realistic but: sells models and is more interesting to pain and collect than 250 foot jockeys in khaki. Aimed I think at the crossover fantasy dudes.

Sgt Steiner
The alternate turns is real killer for me, I can live with the other mainly 'special' rules I dislike especially if I tweak them (another favourite pastime) but this one major stumbling block.
Of course with tweaking (ie my use of alternate activations etc) is fine but then at some point I begin to think why ? as I can pick up another set of rules such as GHQ and play them pretty much as is.
But I got to agree the FOW bandwagon is hard to resist and their website is absolutely superb (I especially like the blow by blow introduction to the rules).

I followed the FOW rules through playtest phase but have mislead beta versiona and cant recall if they included Opp fire and/or diffrent sequence of play ?
I wish BF chaps would consider posting some 'semi-offical' house/advanced rules on their website to satisfy their non-tourney playing adherents (but maybe we are small minority ?)

Barr7430
I have gotten the guys in the local shop club interested in running FoW with a real orbat ie: 6-9 platoons of infantry with a couple of AT guns or mortar platoon against a similar force on the other side.

Sgt Steiner
I quite like Inf in FOW as they are more durable/useful than in say RF wherein those Inf 'Coys' get cut to shreds in pretty short order in my experience.

Barr7430
The competition 1500 point games are fun but totally pointless and not in any way representative of WW2 action.

Sgt Steiner
Such is competition style play for all periods I suspect, I played in Ancients comps at Derby many moons ago with WRG7th and DBM but never took it as seriously as some (as I was much too keen to finish games and get to spend money at stalls !!)

Barr7430
Maybe you should refer to Pat Conner's favourite WW2 rules: IABSM(I ain't been shot Mum). He's using his sales patter on me at the moment.

Sgt Steiner
These rules get a good rep and definitely on my wish list.
I have been buying several skirmish sets as my 20mm stuff is enticing me again (been literally years sine they saw light of day) and really like Arc Of Fire which has some nice rules I could use with many other rulesets (I really think I have a problem with all this I must seek help). The seq of play includes an activation system using playing cards (2 per unit) that works quite well for smaller games.
I really like Spearhead, Blitzkrieg Commander as well as GHQ rules and of course Battlegroup PzGrenadier (did you ever purchase these ?) in addition to FOW, so many to chose from so little time (especially as I am dabbling with your ULB rules and Shako for WSS stuff and Vis Bellica/PKArchon II for Ancients !!!)

I recently had a week or so off and spent it solo (its sad really) 'playtesting' several rulesets using an expanded version of the intro scn from GHQ rules using 6mm and then a scn from BGPzGR using 15mm. Not unsurprisingly most had their problems/strengths and gave overall similar results (some just took longer to get there) and in the end it was all down to dice anyhow
For 6mm I used :
Spearhead
Blitzkrieg Commander
Command Decision III
Kampfgruppe Commander
GHQ Micro Armor
WRG 1925-50 (old I know !)
Firefly (nearly as old !)
Flames Of War (worked ok)
and various other old sets that I tried a couple of turns with.

For 15mm I used
Flames Of War (tweaked)
Rapid Fire
Overlord (an all-time fav set of mine by Barrie Lovell)
Crossfire (tweaked for Tanks)
Arc Of Fire
Guts N Glory
Battlegroup Panzer Grenadier
Panzer Marsch
Tiger Tiger
Where The Iron Crosses Grow

Using BGPZGR

And again but on friends table (I do have one) with my Tyneside Scots dealing death and destruction to his 9th SS sods at Rauray

And lastly my first run with Arc Of Fire (counted wounds as morale check for my multi-based 15mm Inf) and my new carpet tiles...................

I feel quite worn out now I must go and lie down...................................

Gary

[barr7430]

Tried out an American Sherman company against a late war German force this evening and found out exactly why Michael Wittman became a Panzer Ace!

My Yanks were bold, decisive, yet measured.. we chewed up the Kraut infantry and spat them out, they were cowering under the rocks under the rocks!

Enter stage right... a lone Tiger. Despite being outmanoeuvred by my nippy M4A3 76's and slugging it out head to head with a Jumbo, despite taking over six hits, four from the rear....the B******* creamed me!

It's back to Aberdeen Proving Grounds for my Sherman Tankers!

The Bastogne spirit will prevail and we shall return!

(Not Douglas McArthur but Barry `Sherman' Hilton)

Thanks for the game Lorne!

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Barry

Try pitting T34/76s in 1943 (Fearless Conscripts by default) against the Big Kittens !! awful to behold.......................

Like I said I do like the stats in FOW.

Hope my Kitty Kats in Campaign prove as tough

Cheers

[pappenheimuk]

We play FOW at our club, just now I'm using early war Brits and Germans,
Its so good when the Matildas meet Panzer 1,2 & 3's

[barr7430]

I played out the campaig ngame in J4 tonight using 28mm figures and FoW. It was fast, furious and decisive. Managed to roll in all aspects: tank v tank combat, infantry shooting, infantry assaults, counter attacks and mortar fire. All worked very well.

That's another option in the toolkit !

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Barry

If FOW keeps giving the Huns the success it did here it gets my vote

Seriously though I suspect that the ease of play of FOW is a real aid to fighting these campaign battles ?

Cheers

[barr7430]

The biggest mental leap I had to make was the man&vehicle to model ratio. In GHQ/Rapid Fire the ratio is something like 1= 10 for personnel and 1:3-5 for equipment. FoW is 1=1. So, although the proportions of the forces, Soviet to German was correct, I fought what might be described as a real life battalion action as a `company level action. I see no problem in this method. The game was fast (I have now played a total of 5 FoW games and watched a further 2 so I feel reasonably comfortable with the rule mechanics), simple and decisive.

The Germans I classed as CONFIDENT VETERAN, the Soviets as FEARLESS TRAINED. This made Soviet morale recovery easier than German and German shooting accuracy was better than Soviet. Most of the T34 losses were inflicted by the Mk IVs at long range. The Panthers took care of the T70s who buzzed around like Wasps stinging Rhinoceros. Inevitably their few chances to sting the `tender parts' were squandered and the end became depressingly predictable!

The T34 M43s were equally matched to the MkIVs. The Soviet submachine gun armed infantry took out the German infantry in a frontal assault without any bother but long range fire from the HMGs on the hill drove back the assault.

The Germans had no support weapons, the Soviets three 120mm mortars. Accuracy was good but the dug in German infantry shrigged it off with nothing more than a headache.

I will try them again for the next two actions - Amphibious assault at Borisov and a Soviet Mechanised Infantry attack near the Berezhina. Paul Mc is the next victim(oops I mean playtester)

B

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Barry

Nice new pic of burning T34s btw

The biggest mental leap I had to make was the man&vehicle to
odel ratio. I fought what might be described as a real life battalion action as a `company level action. I see no problem in this method.

Despite FOW being 'termed' a 1:1 set it is certainly abstract enough for an AFV/Inf stand to represent higher level units.

The game was fast , simple and decisive.

Yes it definately is all of the above and again I suspect a bonus for playing these campaign situations.
As ever though I feel at times it is just too simple............

Cheers

[NJ2Munich]

Hi Mates
I am new to this site,,, so I hope that am not out of line.

Fow , was tryed by me for 70 games.... I am slow but I just dont like it.
There is a Game system calles
Blitzkrieg Commander, with a site and a "light" rules version.

it is rocking fun, just that simple and it works,, take a look maybe you'll like 'em too.

They are from a gamer "Pete" he is a one man show , without any backing and has sold 1000 copies the first year , and has printed another lot.

cheers
Michael (Munich)

[barr7430]

Welcome to the site Michael!

Where can these rules be accessed. Does Pete have a website ?


Cheers and Thanks

Barry

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Barry

http://www.wargamesdirectory.com/html/bkc/default.asp

Pete also runs the excellent Wargame Directory website

http://www.wargamesdirectory.com/


BKC is another highly playable set of rules and is based on Warmaster fantasy ruleset, primarily for 10mm but easily suitable for any scale.
Like FOW it has piles of dice rolling
Overall I find it more satisfying than FOW as it has very playable C&C system (although I am never sure just how many Cmd elements to field in historical type scns).
At first I was a bit put off by the 'Hits' per stand and 'Saves' system of combat but in practice it works really well.
Check out the AARs by Pete on webpage for good overview of how system works.

Cheers

[Anonymous]

I played out the campaig ngame in J4 tonight using 28mm figures and FoW.

Barry, can you give us some hints how you have changed FoW for 28mm. I was thinking about the same, but had no good ideas. Maybe my problem is, that i have based my infantry in singles.

[barr7430]

Hi Frank,

here's what I did:

1.Treated my three to a base 28mm infantry(50mm diameter round basing -see gallery) as a FoW `Team'. I used seven of these to make a platoon for the Soviets and between 4 and 6 bases for the Germans.
2. Treated one vehicles as one vehicle(exactly the same)

3. Doubled ALL ranges.

4. Used the FOW artillery template as is. The difference in base area between a 50mm round(28mm) and a FoW team base is not as much as you'd think. This was quite ok and didn't in any way seem `odd'.

I forget if there were any more obvious changes but Paul might like to comment on this if he reads it. The last WW2 game he played was at my house using the same figures but the GHQ MicroArmor rules. He would be able to give a fresh perspective on the pros/cons of both.

Hope this helps


Barry