According to Anthony Kemp's "Weapons & Equipment of the Marlborough Wars" by 1700 the horse in all countries had carbines and the dragoons had shortened full bore muskets. According to him the name came from "dragon," a shortened musket. I don't have my sources with me, but I seem to recall reading this in several other sources.

My concern is why have a mounted figure holding a long firearm in the first place? I am not aware of instances of cavalry firing carbines while mounted in the WSS. Is anyone else?

Well said Dfogleman2, and that was exactly what I was trying to explain.
Horse squadron's would never be carrying their carbine in their hand in the first place, and for some not even their pistols.
I agree with you Arthur on the question of Front Rank figurines, but for me the detail and clean sculps make them one of the best on the market.

Cheers,

Ray.

It seems they would have in some armies. Using Puységur's Art de la guerre as his source, Brent Nosworthy describes German cavalry charge tactics in his Anatomy of Victory : Battle Tactics 1690-1763.

The German squadrons would await the French charge with swords hanging from their wrists and carbines slung from their shoulder belts. Then at a distance of 50 feet, the men would grab their carbines using their right hands only and fire at will. Once the firearms had been discharged, they were dropped (still attached to the bandolier, of course) and the men would grasp the swords hanging from their wrists.

Not all armies used such methods of course, and the efficiency of this tactic largely depended on the discipline and steadiness of the troops using it, but the carbine was apparently more than just a useless weight in battle. Incidentally, it would also have come in handy for outpost and picket duties.

Horse squadron's would never be carrying their carbine in their hand in the first place, and for some not even their pistols.

Bit of a sweeping generalisation there Ray. Why arm your troops with weapons that they never use. A bit of an expensive folly. Of course cavalry would use their long mounted arms if and when the situation required.

Arthur,

That seem's like a very risky tactic and very nerve racking for the carbine shooting cavalryman.Shooting at a range of 50 ft against a galloping target would mean the enemy would be on top of them in seconds.

Jim,

Your quite correct my statement was a generalisation and of course their carbines must have been used in some instances, but my point is it must have been very rare.Otherwise we would see carbine in hand carrying horse troopers (not dragoons) from other figure manufactures.

I think Nick can make his own mind up on this matter.

Cheers,

Ray.

All,
Am I alone in missing something in this thread?
The theme seems to be questioning the accuracy of the sculps being kindly being produced by Nick to add value to our period of gaming. For that I am particularly grateful.
However within the conversation we regularly have links harking back to the bland and wooden giants as being the benchmark for all that follows. If that is to be the case then pray tell how on earth did this example (manufacturer ref WSC2 Cavalry with carbine I believe) get overlooked in the debate? I do at times feel that there is an unhealthy and at times partizan attitude at times favouring this one manufacturer.

Regards
Tim

Eugenio, fully agree. As usual the thread has veered off the original post.
I think that we agree that carbines are wot hang from the cavalryman's crossbelts and usually, but not always a reduced size musket (musketoon?)is used by dragoons.
Ebor has been good enough to run these figures past the assembly before production and has listened to advice. I just wouldn't want to give him the wrong advice.
I have a unit of the Front Rank cavalry with carbines in my French army but have only 2 squadrons from 78 as I kinda agree with Ray that they did not see a deal of use in normal circumstances.
I like Front Rank and even the sometimes a bit wooden poses. But wargames figures are entirely a personal choice.
Good to bring that into the debate though!

I hope no one took any of my comments as a quibble with FR. I have hundreds of FR WSS. Just pointing out that it would in fact be appropriate to arm the horse with carbines and dragoons with musketoons.

I use the different poses from FR (or Ebor or Warfare) to create the look and feel that I want regardless of whether or not the unit carried their musket/carbine that way. I use the FR horse with carbine to represent the Royal des Carabiniers even though the fought with sword in hand 99% of the time. They look really good and it is a wargame representation of a unit - nothing more and nothing less.

Eugenio/Tim, you are the only one following the original thread, I think. The NEW EBOR WSS FIGURES are a very welcomed adition to our gaming world, particularly if he is going to touch those forgotten Armies like the Portuguese or Spanish and not only the "Big Two". The models I have seen at the moment appears to be well proportioned and "alive", and the Cavalry model is, in my opinion, great (after the correction in the size of the weapons); a cavalryman on rest, or waiting, or watching. I expect to see many different Cavalry and Infantry models around the same position of the body (marching, firing, resting...) because it is the way to obtain a good looking unit and, besides, some other models in not so common "poses", as this cavalryman.

Congratulations for your work, Ebor.

Juan

[img]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m535/eboracomb/cid_DSCF001101[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m535/eboracomb/cid_DSCF0006014.j[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m535/eboracomb/cid_DSCF0010018.jpg[/img]pg[/IMG]9.jpg[/IMG]

Hi Fella's here are a few more of the greens from paul,the first set of greens will be in my hands by monday or tuesday at the latest so I will get straight onto the mould making and get the figures in the webstore as quickly as possible,I hope you think they are as good as I do in my opinion pauls done a fantastic job.As for the thread on the size of weapons I have kept quite on the subject for two reasons the first is that this period is not one that I can in any way claim to be an expert on,my own field of expertise being the western front in WW1 and british medieval history,so to challange anybodies opinions was not going to happen.,the second is the depth of feeling each post seemed to create as somebody new to forums I must admit this did take me back a bit,but this as well as the contratictory source materials I've read showed there are still a lot of grey areas in our knowledge.I do appreciate your obviously well informed opinions which have proved invaluable in pointing me in the right direction,the scale of weapons is difficult as has been pointed out because weapons in scale are to flimsy to stand up to the riguors of mould making and as has also been pointed out personal taste has its part to play.

good fortune and happy gaming Nick

ps sorry for the length of this post.

sorry about this I can only get one picture at a time Nick

still not quite got the hang of photobucket.

cheers nick

Hi Nick,

Thanks for posting these, very nice too.
I hope your clicking on the correct code for posting your photo's...remember it's the forth and final box marked IMG code...you should be able to post as many photo's as you like within the same message.

Kind Regards,

Ray.