1685-1700 range; Yea or nay? (pic added 9th April)

Clibinarium · Post by **Clibinarium** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:34 am

With Mark's new range of 1660-80 figures coming out there seems to be spike in interest in the earlier wars of Louis XIV. I've been toying with the idea of doing some figures in 28mm for 1685-1700 for a while now (I am already working on a 10mm range for my own collection)

Is there room for such a range? I hope it would compliment Mark's range in that it covers the later period, but there are already a number of ranges that cover the period. Given that its a niche already is there any appetite for a for the later period?

Post by **barr7430** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:19 pm

Hmmmm... depends how you define niche really...

If BLB sales are anything to go by then this is not a niche period anymore. Although sales have levelled off since about October last year I am still getting regular orders every week and the first print run of 1,000 copies is over 90% gone now. 900+ copies of a a rule set in a finite market is pretty good I think although as we all know many wargamers are suckers for rule sets and at SALUTE someone did describe BLB as wargames p-o-r-n (had to spell it to get through the SPAM filter!)

.. what an accolade

Heneborn · Post by **Heneborn** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:52 pm

900+ copies!? That's great! But as you said wargamers do buy rules as there were no tomorrow, I myself have something like 15 different rulesets but only use 1 regularly (sorry to say it is not BLB but a quite popular game with small tanks;))

But to get back on the subject, wargamers do also buy ridiculous amounts of miniatures from any scales, periods and manufacturers. I have hundreds of different miniatures ranging from 6mm Napoleonics (yes, I am a bit ashamed about that) to 28mm gangsters.

So there is always an appetite for good looking miniatures, I have not seen any of your sculpting but if it's close to mr Copplestone I don't think you can go wrong!

18th Century Guy · Post by **18th Century Guy** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:43 pm

I'd have to agree with Heneborn and say that if your figures compliment & fill in any gaps that Cobblestone will have then you'll have a good shot at it. I really don't have any knowledge around the early wars but it does sound like a very interesting period to do. You could make some leader figures and have one of them be a young Churchhill!

To me the interest is there for almost any period IF (and this is the really hard part) there is a complete line of decent quality figures available from either one source or a couple of them that are compatible.

Adam Hayes · Post by **Adam Hayes** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:54 pm

IF the figures are nice then they will get snapped up.

Clibinarium · Post by **Clibinarium** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:24 pm

Well admittedly its not as niche as it was, and the popularity it has is likely due mostly to Barry and associates giving it plenty of visibility it might not otherwise have had. Its niche in the sense that Wargaming is already niche, and most periods are niches within except the big hitters like Naps and WW2. It is true that good quality figures bring interest in themselves.

When I first wanted to do the period there was very little suitable in 15mm, and only really Dixon and Foundry in 25/28. I converted lots of 15mm Marlburians, then sold my armies as more 15mm ranges began to appear just when I was becoming a 10mm convert.

Over the next few days I'll whip up a sample figure and we'll see if that cuts it or not.

reiver rob · Post by **reiver rob** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:36 pm

I can see what you mean by a niche market only because it isn't one of the run of the mill big sellers such as Napoleonic or ACW but I must say at Reiver Castings we've done alright by that niche which covers 1679-1721.

I think there is room for Mark's 1660-80 range but the only thing which is lacking is the information to assist gamers. There is information out there but not in a ready accesible format (much the same as the later 1685-1700 period) and if a set of uniform guides dedicated to the period were available it would make it more gamer friendly. BLB did this for the rule side of things but you have to dig around for orders of battle (that may be over to you Barry!) I have a decent library of uniform and period information but it's spread across numerous books and would cost a fortune for someone starting the period to get the same amount of material, so I can understand why some gamers stay clear.

I think Mark's figures portray the earlier French very well, lots of lace and character which the 1660/70's had and I wish him luck with them. The Dutch Wars have always looked inviting and a young Duke of Monmouth would fit in well.

danschorr · Post by **danschorr** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:09 pm

Rob,

Would you be willing to share the titles, etc. that contain uniform information for the 1660-1680 period?

I completely agree that there is a lack of accessible information on uniforms, colours and standards, and OOBs for this period, and what is there is usually not in English.

Regards,

Dan

Clibinarium · Post by **Clibinarium** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:18 pm

Agreed, the info that there is is scattered, and what I have doesn't really cover 1660-80 very well.

I've heard it said that the popularity of Napoleonics and ACW is in good part down to the fact that there is lots and lots of material available in English.

reiver rob · Post by **reiver rob** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:47 am

I think I've mislead you a little. What I meant was I have information on the period between 1680 and 1700 which is spread out across numerous books including information I've picked up from you Dan.

I will check through my resource material anyway and see what I can come up with. I know I do have the book on Monmouth called "Captain General and Rebel Chief" which has a chapter on his time in The Dutch Wars. I have information on the English and Scots of the period but you may well have this. I'm sure I have other information so give me a day or two and I'll get back with titles.

Rob

reiver rob · Post by **reiver rob** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:07 am

I checked through some of my books which have references to the 1665-1680 period. A small list but I probably have more when I get the chance to delve deeper into my library.

John Childs- Warfare in the Seventeenth Century
John Childs- The Army of Charles II
Clifford Walton- A History of the British Standing Army (borrowed, it's quite expensive!)
C.P. Lawson- History of uniforms of the British Army vol.1
Dalton- The Scots Army 1661-1688
Vauban- A Manual of Seigecraft and Fortifications
Vincent Cronin- Louis XIV
Funcken- Arms and Uniforms Ancient Egypt to 18th Century
John Lynn- The French Wars 1667-1714, Osprey Essential Histories
Rene Chartrand- Louis XIV's Army, Osprey
The other Osprey on The British Army 1660's up to Marlborough (I've loaned it out and can't remember the title!)
Pierre Foure, Translated by Pat Condray- Colours of the French Infantry under Louis XIV 1638-1715 books 1 and 2

I noticed a book by Paul Sonnino called 'Louis XIV and the origins of the Dutch War'. I don't have a copy but I checked it over and it seemed to have some good information in it.

After realising the gap in my references I went onto Google and found an interesting website www.warsoflouisxiv.blogspot.com
There are some interesting pictures on the site.

I'm sure I have a lot more when I get a better chance to look but if anyone finds anything please share it.

Rob

danschorr · Post by **danschorr** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:12 pm

Rob,

Thanks for taking the time to post your references. This is a difficult period to investigate, as there is little in English. I have located a number of books and articles, mostly from the 19th Century, on the war in French, German, Dutch, Swedish and Danish, but little of value in English.

There has been no real effort to research and document uniforms, colours and standards from the 1670s. What we do have are fragments of information. Archives might provide more details, but few have the time, money and stamina to undertake this task.

We do need to share what we have, and that is why I appreciate your efforts.

The blog you mentioned is excellent, and I would encourage visits on a regular basis.

Regards,

Dan

Clibinarium · Post by **Clibinarium** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:10 pm

Well, here's a sample figure. An officer, would be suitable as an ensign or officer with spontoon, I'm almost out of wire, so you'll have to use your imagination. There's the odd bit that could do with more work, but he's 99% finished. Its surprising what nasty things you can see in a blown up pic, but not on a figure in your hand!

What do you reckon?

Post by **barr7430** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:39 pm

I reckon that is a VERY good figure... anatomy is very natural and the detail is nice.
Would be good to see a comparison against another range...

KEEP GOING!!!!!

huevans07 · Post by **huevans07** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:51 pm

He's very nice and appears competitive with the figures of the major ranges.

Do you do "dolls" which can be modified into a series of finished figures? this would seem to save sculptors a lot of work.