Interested in your views

[barr7430]

After writing a piece called the Wargaming meets the X Factor for WI last month I have been watching some major ranting going on in other fora from people doing exactly what I described in the article.

I wondered if I was 'man alone' when it comes to the following points of view extrtacted from the article:

Fame addiction has combined with another of modern society’s blights – political correctness in an extremely corrosive bit of chemistry. Individuals are posting pictures of their wargaming miniatures on the web which is absolutely fine but at the same time they are seeking public approbation for these unsolicited works. Now I am totally ok with the story so far but it is of course, not the whole story. Having posted and solicited comment it is anticipated that the world will lavish unqualified praise on said posting regardless of the quality. Heaven help the hapless but honest soul who tells the truth. The wrath of God will surely descend upon him and if not God’s wrath some hairy arsed grunger will threaten to beat him to pulp with a backpack if he ever shows his face in public again. EXTRACT

This worrying phenomenon has now infected numerous fora on the net where truly appalling brushwork is feted in superlative language with monotonous regularity. Let’s be totally honest some of it is just bloody rubbish but if you say so you become the subject of a fatwah by the many headed as some friends of mine have found to their cost. If you are going to put your work up for public scrutiny you’ve got to be prepared for whatever comment comes along. Working on something with the sole objective of trying to make people say nice things about it even if it is downright poor is delusional and probably counts as the wargaming equivalent of the X Factor auditions.… what a thought. EXTRACT


I’ve heard a few cases for the defence over the years ranging from… ‘well it’s a niche hobby and we really need to encourage as many people as possible to stay in it’ to ‘they are only a small company and really don’t have the money to do anything better’. Yes many of us do know many more of us and yes it’s nice to be nice but that’s not real life. EXTRACT

Could it be to do with advertising revenues? I cannot answer that question but I hope not. Periodicals in any hobby are there not only to entertain but to inform and I would hope, challenge. I am sure that editors over the years have despaired at some of the tame reviewing that has filled the column inches of their journals. There is a general paucity of the vox populi in the mags these days and I personally would welcome the return of full and meaningful editorials of a half page at least, letters pages and a vigorous culture of reviewing as opposed to the brief, well intentioned and tame efforts from some of the current scriveners. Oh for the likes of Peter Tanner (nom de plume though it was!) EXTRACT

The very things mentioned above are happening in almost a comedy send up kind of manner on TMP (and elsewhere) right now...


Interested in anyone's views.

Full article in the WARCHEST soon or... buy Duncan's Mag

[j1mwallace]

I fully agree here Barry. My pet hate on a particular WW2 website is the use of the word Awesome by our American Cousins.
Krakatoa exploding would probably have been awesome. A nuclear explosion is awesome.
15mm wargames toys are NEVER awesome.
Some of the pictures on the site look as if they,ve been painted in the dark with a spray can. from 20 feet
try and be hones without being too negative though and your post is deleted!!.
The truth obviously does not sit well with the PC brigade where everyone has to be an overachiever and no one is allowed to be ordinary

[barr7430]

thanx for that Jim I thought it was just me

Shock & Awe should perhaps read

Shocking & Awful

[Spiraluk]

It's not you Barry. The world went mad while you weren't looking.

[martin terroni]

Nuts!!!


Mr T

[barr7430]

I am Nuts?
You are Nuts?
They are Nuts?
Life is Nuts?


You are a Philosopher Martin

[martin terroni]

Unfortunately in any pastime, there will always be the ones you want to say, "get a life!"

Mr T

[sharnydubs]

I guess many of those that really want to know what fellow gamers think of their painting standards enter painting competitions. The rest of the gaming community tend to know deep down how good their painting skills really are and so don't tend to offer up their paint jobs for too much comment or criticism. Although I'm happy to put on display games I will never put up my own figures up as great paint jobs. why - because I know that I could always do better, I just stop when I think they're good enough to grace a table.

Personally, I am biaised so would never make a good painting competition judge. No matter how good a paint job, if the figure sculpt is poor , I struggle to say much positive about the figure other than - why did you bother and why didn't you work on a better sculpt ?

That said I guess we are all encouraged by both those that paint well and those who are "developing their skills" . One gives us something to inspire towards while the other helps us to see how far we have progressed.

As a frequenter of the Miniatures Page I am often surprised at how mediocre many new products actually are and yet how many TMPrs think they are just what they've been waiting for.
I guess we are all different and that's the strength of the hobby.

[big-gazza]

Hi,
its not just you. That certain WW2 forum is quite bad for it.

In saying that I usually try and not be too negative and offer advice if I have any, other wise I just don't comment at all. I know we need to encourage new painters but at the moment things have gone too far and I feel a lot of the positive comments there are worthless.

As for getting negative comments against my own work, I'm all for it. The only way to get better is for others to point out where you have gone wrong and where you could do better.

Probably I'm the biggest critic of my own work as I'm never happy with what I put out. Theres always something that could be done better or cleaner or smoother. All part of the drive to get better and real comments from others are also part of that.

Sorry for going off on a bit of a tangent.

Gazza

[barr7430]

Not a tangent Gary .. your Tangent!

Are we talking about the FoW forum here or Elheim? Now that is the natural domain of the criminally insane poster!

Although I did see a pink Panther tank on the FoW forum 'kin'ell

[Bluebear]

Our taste in paint jobs certainly differs -- after all, we are different people -- and we never know what someone's situation might be. I am minded of something someone wrote online some time ago (I don't recall who).

He wrote that we could either paint for the tabletop or the display cabinet. And he's correct. The detail that goes into some of those lovely "display cabinet" figures is amazing . . . and it would be lost in the midst of a unit three feet away.

People paint figures for different purposes. I, for example, admire the lovely paint jobs on "display cabinet" figures. I know that I could not paint to that quality. I paint for the tabletop and I think that my figures look good. They don't win awards (and shouldn't), but they are more than adequate for the purpose I've painted them . . . and they'd look terrible as individual figures shown at several times life-size.

If I were to display them in the above manner, I would expect criticism. If I had pictures on the unit at gaming distances, I would feel such criticism to be unjustified.

Hmmm, I seem to have gotten off on a tangent as well . . .

Barry, there are people who try to build themselves up by tearing others down. Attacking people who tell the truth as they see it, simply because it doesn't agree with their "truth", is one of the symptoms of this syndrome.

Those who attack you (or others) who try to honestly comment on something reveals a great deal about them. Now I will admit that I usually find something that I can comment favorably on -- but if not, I tend to keep my opinion to myself -- because I don't always know that person's situation.

You are dead on about the "political correctness" of first, praising everything (whether deserved or not); and second, attacking others for not praising everything (deserved or not).

Hopefully this ramble makes some sense . . . in any case, I do not think that you were wrong, Barry; nor that you deserved any castigation for expressing your opinion.


-- Jeff


But you are spot on Barry.

[Chad]

I tend to agree with the views expressed and find the poor painting is not confined to the web. Many articles in the wargame press use figures to illustrate articles that frankly should not be used for close-up photography.

I sometimes think that the standard of modelling has generally outstripped our painting abilities and this also contributes to the apparent poor standards seen. The quality of figure modelling today is far superior to when I started 30+ years ago and I like to think it has forced me to improve my painting. Would others agree?

I do take some comfort, however, when I realise that my painting standard is sometimes better than those I see. It has taken 30+ years to reach my current painting quality and I know it will not get any better. By that I mean I have reached the limit of my competence (and my eyesight!!) and am happy with the results.

Chad

[barr7430]

Thanks for your support Jeff but in this actual case... I WASN'T the target (although I have been in the past!!!).
The PCness commented on by many of you is actually quite unPC!... it's PC to say something good about something rubbish but if you tell the truth they reaction of the ranters themselves is very unPC
Questioning your parentage
Mother work's nightshift down at the docks
Your sexuality
etc
etc

All because you said that the shade of khaki used was a trifle light for mid war British


Chad's comment about the standard of some of the stuff used to illustrate magazine articles is true but mostly of Miniature Wargames.

The argument I have heard many times from the Wargames 'chattering classes' is that Duncan's mag does not illustrate REAL wargaming.. all the models are not typical in terms of painting standards, terrain etc.... Mr Dickie's offering is supposed to represent the REAL face of wargaming
I'm sure my mother will be surprised to hear she gave birth to a hologram 46 years ago and that I am not real. My stuff is real (or it was last time I looked), I game with it and so are the collections owned by the likes of
Aly Morrison
Brian Phillips
David Imrie
Stuart Parkin
Dean Whitehouse
Dave Bickley
Dave Andrew
The Perry
Lee Maxwell/Graham Cummings & Gordon Mclean
John Ray
Bill Gaskin
etc
etc
I know cos I'll seen 'em all!

Also, those not often featured collections such as

Pat Connor's
Kevin Calder's
Andy Thomson's
Jim Wallace's (WSS one of the finest I've ever seen )
Peter Nicholson's
Julian Edward's

to name but a few,are absolutely top drawer and of the same calibre as all aforementioned... I've seen these too!

I think the inverse snobbery of MW's sub standard models and totally over engineered photos is actually the worst of both possible worlds.

OOPs now this is turning into a bit of a rant... must put the kettle on and calm down

[Wim VdB]

I agree totaly Barry!

Several years ago MW was as popular as WI with my friends. Now non of my wargaming friends buys MW. I never liked the pictures, but at least some of the articles used to be interesting (for example the range of articles/scenario's about the SYW some years ago).

Concerning the quality of painting, I suggest you come and take a look at the quality of the painting at the Crisis wargames show saturday 3rd november in Antwerp. I have yet to see that quality in MW!

Anyone interested can see pictures of previous editions of Crisis at http://www.tsoa.be/ (you have to scroll down a bit)

Wim

[barr7430]

Wim the stuff on your TSOA site is of a great standard
Love the DDAY pictures!!!

I need a reason to come to Antwerp again, I only ever go on business and I have never been to Crisis (although Dave Thomas is trying to persuade me to go next year just for the beer )
Wonderful city....
Wonderful beer...
And food....