The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

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The Rabblerouser
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The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by The Rabblerouser » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:20 pm

After watching this video of a theory regarding the outcome of the divisions of Charlemagne's empire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ1jkjfRKJM

and a topic that was brought up in a recent In Our Time podcast about the Congress of Vienna made think about how the Low countries have been a scene of conflict in Europe for centuries

Examples:

- Eighty Years War

-All of the SUn King's Wars

- Revolutionary Wars and Napoleonic Wars (According to the podcast the Kingdom of Holland was created as buffer to contain the power of France)

-Both world wars

There probably plenty of others I haven't mentioned but it does seem interesting that this part of Europe should see so much conflict.
A scene of rivalry between the Holy Roman Empire and France perhaps. While its quite a broad topic does anyone have any opinions regarding this?
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Re: The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by Gunfreak » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:17 am

There were plenty of wars there in the middle ages. Flanders had the only industrial scale production of cloth weaving. Sevral of the cities in the low countries during the 13/14th centuries were bigger than London, and only Paris surpassed Ghent.

I think this could have something to do with the later conflicts. Flanders was densely populated, lots of riches. This means money. And people want money.

For the Sun king's wars by that time the Dutch Republic was a merchant empire, again LOTS of money, onøy the after the WSS did Britain surpass the Republic in GDP.
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Re: The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by Friedrich August I. » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:00 pm

Nice Topic btw. :-)

Well it was well before that time period that Flanders was of high importance. Because of its trade and commerce riches they Flanders Leaders had much influence on what stuff was imported to France and Lower Saxony.
Therefore the 6th Duke of Normandy, William, married Mathilda of Flanders. and - a very important portion of the Channel coast of the mainland together.
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"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by Friedrich August I. » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:02 pm

Oh and to keep a buffer state in place isn't a uncommon thing between oppressive neighbors, i.e., Saxony
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by The Rabblerouser » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:20 pm

Friedrich August I. wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:02 pm
Oh and to keep a buffer state in place isn't a uncommon thing between oppressive neighbors, i.e., Saxony
If the hapsburgs and Fredrick the great wanted to keep Saxony and the commonwealth separated then you're probably right.

The cloth trade is definitely a good factor. I believe the expulsion of English merchants from Flanders gave Edward iii the excuse to make his claims on France.

I suppose in regards to Louie xiv's interests in The Low Countries it was a mixture of getting his wedding dowry, access to this trade input and begging his consolidation of borders on the Rhine.
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Re: The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by barr7430 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:03 pm

Add in dynastic disputes, inherited lands, access to the North Sea, the riches of the the Low Countries commercial trade and stock markets, English interest, noisy neighbours, fertile soil and marijuana cafes and the picture is obvious I'd say..
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Re: The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by Gunfreak » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:38 pm

barr7430 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:03 pm
Add in dynastic disputes, inherited lands, access to the North Sea, the riches of the the Low Countries commercial trade and stock markets, English interest, noisy neighbours, fertile soil and marijuana cafes and the picture is obvious I'd say..

You forgot high class luxury bordellos.
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Re: The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by barr7430 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:12 pm

I only know the lower class ones
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Re: The Low Countries (What was the big fuss all about?)

Post by The Rabblerouser » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:05 pm

barr7430 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:03 pm
Add in dynastic disputes, inherited lands, access to the North Sea, the riches of the the Low Countries commercial trade and stock markets, English interest, noisy neighbours, fertile soil and marijuana cafes and the picture is obvious I'd say..
I suppose the more you have, the more other people want it.

Still interesting that both the French and the allies turned the region into a buffer states rather that integrating (or reintegrating on the part of the Hapsburgs) into their own National borders.
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