28mm WWII Brit and German artillery crew.

OK, so after two years I've finally given in to having a section of the FORUM specifically set up to discuss painting techniques, display examples, show your latest projects and chat about this vital part of the hobby. Manufacturers please feel free to post up your sculpts, ask questions about what the gamers are after and generally promote your work.. no charge! Painters, please also feel free to post up your work for comment and critique. I can't promise the unreserved adulation characteristic of some other fora but I would hope you'd get constructive and measured comment!
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28mm WWII Brit and German artillery crew.

Post by big-gazza » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:21 pm

Hi,
just finished some Brit and German artillery crew for Boltaction. More great sculpts from Paul Hicks. Figures arn't based as they are for their store.

Image
Image
Image
Image

All comments, good or bad welcome.

Gazza
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Post by Alpha » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:22 pm

Great Stuff!
Dave Imrie
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Post by barr7430 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:25 pm

Gary,

your painting is just getting better and better :D. I have been reading recently in various places about how people are reacting negatively to sycophantic and inane comments about painted minis where thread contributors show a distinct lack of 'critique' or constructive comment. Everythings is
Mega, super,smashing, great, brilliant, classic, superb,wonderful,awesome,majestic, titanic etc etc etc :roll: :roll: :roll: Clearly in many cases it is not. You just have to look at some of the crap on the Battlefront forum to see that there are a lot of dillusional types posting. Painting for wargaming purposes is totally fine. Nobody necessarily needs to be michangelo and I don't think wargaming standard painting should be in any way criticised full stop. When however 'Painters' deliberately post their stuff for comment (in most cases adulation they hope) They are entering a different league. I think if it is up for critique it should get both barrels :twisted:
And... since you actively invite comment :wink: either good :D or bad :( then I'll offer some :roll: (OF COURSE NONE OF THE ABOVE VITRIOL IS AIMED AT YOU MY FRIEND!!!)

I think your composition (in dioramas and multi figure situations such as vehicle interiors etc) is extremely well thought through and interesting.
I think your style of painting is neat and precise with good definition and sensible choices of colour combinations. Put all of that together and you have a very strong combination.. wintness many of the lovely pieces we've seen and admired.

Where I think you might want to look at things a little differently in the richness of your colours.
Painting over a black undercoat as you often do.. some colours tend to have a very washed out an dull look. I think the faces are a good example of this.
You have the skill to do it, so it's more a matter of colour choice. I would say, be bolder, make some colours more dramatic...

I know it's only opinion but hanging around with the likes of Imrie, Connor, Phillips,Andrews,Thomson,Calder,Woodward,Morrison etc means that I've discussed such things now and again :roll:
My own painting style has evolved quite dramatically over the years and I now look back on things I have done over the past 15 years without much satisifaction(with a few exceptions). I have for many years - OVERPAINTED. I get frustrated when I see some of the huge overpainting botches I've mangled. Some of my Grand Alliance collection fits this description in my eyes.

I have recently made a vow to UNDERPAINT. (My Therapist Dr P.Connor helps me with this)

And as a parting shot I would echo your comment at the start of this thread COMMENTS on my points WELCOME FROM ALL :wink:
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Post by theoldschool » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:23 pm

Gary
The figures are really good. I think Barry has a point that perhaps the mid tone could be a bit stronger to hold the rest of the work together. The only thing I'm not sure about is the colour of the helmets, it seems at odds with the rest of the figure and looks a bit too green, but that may be the lighting. I use Tamiya Khaki Drab which I think comes the closest to the colour of the British helmet.

My own colour combination for the British in 1944 is [basecoat] Vallejo English Uniform with some black brown added. [mid tone] English uniform and [highlight] Vallejo Knaki Grey. This is not a misprint. Vallejo do two colours under the same number - one is labelled Khaki and the other Knaki. Try to get the Knaki it is a much better match. I have to thank Tony Barton for that one. The webbing [again courtesy of Mr Barton] is Knaki plus yellow brought up with some Ivory. The green 44 pattern webbing was issued in the Far East and IIRC didn't make it to Europe until much later.

As to Barry's comments about his LoA figures. Total nonsense :D :D
I had the great pleasure of playing with them at the weekend and they are wonderful figures. And as for his skill at putting units together I don't think anyone other than Dave Imrie can touch him.

However, I do agree with his comment about overpainting. Too many painters equate the number of layers with a level of skill. As to the modern fashion for leaving lines everywhere, I won't even go there. Try doing very dark colours and belts single colour, mid tone colours in two layers and only the lightest colours in three layers and the result might be somerthing of a surprise - and if you can't see it don't paint it. You might not win Golden Demon but it will get figures on the table.

Pat
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Post by big-gazza » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:27 am

Hi,
wow, :shock: realy replys. Didn't expect that.

Thanks for the comments. I think you are tight that a lot of my work is quite dull with out a lot of Richness. Couple of reasons for that.

I've been experimenting with a lot of glazes and wash on the figures after painting is complete. I tend to high light up to very light colours (almost minty for the germans) before applying a final wash. I found this helps to blend the colours together but it does darken them down a bit. I use 3 layers of hilight on the main parts of the uniform and this stops it looking so blocky.

The second reason is experience. I have been painting historical fogures for a couple of years now and I think with one exception they have all been WWII. I learned the 'trade' on 15mm and then more recently moved up to 28mm. I have never really worked with bright colours as you have done in your other periods. Its all been a mix of brown, green or sand. May be I should open up the 40mm Naps figures I picked up at partizan, try some red and white for a change.

Well thats all for now.

Next up should be some WWII Finnish infantry. I'll see what I can do with the differnet shades of grey.

Gazza
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Post by barr7430 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:29 am

Thought it was about time to bust the run of inane comments so typical of the Battlefront site where even the guy with the guide dog gets told he is the best painter west of the Mississippi :roll:

You ARE a very good painter Gary so investing the time after you've made a request for comment is worthwhile.

It's interesting for me too because although very many top painters visit this site I have never particularly encouraged forum chat about painting and have focused more on gaming, scenarios etc

A change is however as good as a rest and so with guys like Pat and David chipping in I thought this thread might actually go beyond
.. Wowww that's awesome DUDE..

I think you should take a couple of hours out to try something totally out of character - Napoleonics, Grand Alliance, Mediaeval even :wink:

If any of the other painters out there (the following come to mind as guys who's opinions I'd value: Kevin Calder, Adrian Howe, Andrew Thomson,Brian Phillips, Dave Woodward, Stuart Parkin, Jim Wallace) have views it would be good to hear :D

There are other members of the forum who are well known names but seem to visit less often so.... let's see if it goes anywhere else :wink:
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Post by big-gazza » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:41 am

Hi,
I know what you mean about the FOW forum. Its good for the ego to get the on line comments but you need to go into it in more detail to get better.

One of the main things to help improve my painting over the last few years was when you turned up at the club. It was a fairly new club without much painting experience. It was great to see your work and talk about how you did things and to 'raise the bar' on painting. (so hows that for an ego boost :roll: :wink: )

If you would like more talk about painting how about a new forum section for it. Give us some where to post all the pics and keep it separate from the game talk?

So to move on as a painter I'll try one of the 40mm Perry naps figures. Painting red and white should be a good change.

Gazza
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Post by barr7430 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:19 am

Be careful what you wish for Gary :evil: - I'll had overthe moderator rights to forum to you if you like :!:
Let me know
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Post by big-gazza » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:23 am

Hi,
no, no, no. Happy to come here for the banter but don't want the responsability.

Have a look in the general discusion section. Another painting topic has started there. You can move it here before the rest of the forum gets infected.

Now lets see some of your 15mm naps figures.


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Post by RenevandenAssem » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:09 pm

barr7430 wrote:I have for many years - OVERPAINTED. I have recently made a vow to UNDERPAINT.
:?:

Hmm Altough the language barriere might not be helping here can you explain what you mean with over and under painting Barry ?

I think it will have something to do with the amount of painted detail but I am not sure.

So please enlighten me :idea:

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Post by barr7430 » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:46 pm

Hi Rene!

what I mean by overpainting is:

Too many highlights which do'nt really add value (4+ on a basic colour)
Too much detail (eyes being an example)

I have noticed with some frustration that when photographed, particularly from a distance... basic, neatly painted figures with bold colours and little fine detail almost always look better than highly detailed figures.

First noticed it on pictures of my own stuff which appeared in wargames illustrated.

Highly detailed painting on models only shows up well if properly lit.. otherwise it often looks poorer than less well painted stuff.
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Post by azeroth » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:16 pm

Gary,

I think if i might add my own opinion to those previous that your painting has improved in the time i have been on this forum. I admire your work and wait the next project with interest. My own painting has been on a back burner for a while but i went into the shop today and purchased my next fow project which is secret for the time being, and i am going back now to my wotr stuff to finish off the rest of my figures so i can get some playtesting doen on the rewrite of the lists for wab for the period.

I will be at the club in the near future, but working in Penrith it isn't possible most weeks to get there :(

IanB
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Post by RenevandenAssem » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:54 pm

barr7430 wrote:Hi Rene!

what I mean by overpainting is:

Too many highlights which do'nt really add value (4+ on a basic colour)
Too much detail (eyes being an example)

I have noticed with some frustration that when photographed, particularly from a distance... basic, neatly painted figures with bold colours and little fine detail almost always look better than highly detailed figures.

First noticed it on pictures of my own stuff which appeared in wargames illustrated.

Highly detailed painting on models only shows up well if properly lit.. otherwise it often looks poorer than less well painted stuff.
Okay Bar,

I understand now.
So basically I have started doing this for some time now (underpainting) since I discovered in Dallimore's book that I liked the 2 layer figure much more than the 3 (or more) layer figure. Which supports Dave Andrew's case of only using 2 layers on most subjects.

At the moment I am painting with the Foundry Paints using mostly the B and C colors. Only exception being the skin and wood. I dont paint eyes anymore and just leave them brownish which is just fine. I must say that it speeds up painting and above all finishing figures and the result is just as nice when seen on the tabletop.

What strikes me most is that stuff like banners and especially basing are much more important than beautifull paintjobs when seen on the wargames table. In fact I have tought about doing an experiment with painting a small army very well (well as good as I can anyway) and do a mediocre basing and banner job and one small army painted okay with superb basing and banners. Just to see which gets most attention.

René
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Post by barr7430 » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:19 pm

It works! 8) I'll save you the time and effort Rene :D ...concentrate on doing your projects and be sure that the comparison you mentioned does actually work!
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Post by quindia » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:47 am

I second Barry's confirmation. I normally only use three stages on faces and large areas of the model (tunics and cloaks). Belts, pouches, boots, etc. normally only get two stages, though my models tend to be a little darker as I usually use the Foundry A and B colors. In my current 28mm Germans project, the boots didn't get highlighted at all because I knew I was going to "weather" the models with muddy drybrushing. Little things like this can speed up your painting of units. I'm up to a full platoon of grenadiers (pics coming soon) after a week's worth of work! :D
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