Painting for gaming

OK, so after two years I've finally given in to having a section of the FORUM specifically set up to discuss painting techniques, display examples, show your latest projects and chat about this vital part of the hobby. Manufacturers please feel free to post up your sculpts, ask questions about what the gamers are after and generally promote your work.. no charge! Painters, please also feel free to post up your work for comment and critique. I can't promise the unreserved adulation characteristic of some other fora but I would hope you'd get constructive and measured comment!
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Painting for gaming

Post by theoldschool » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:54 am

There has been some very interesting discussion across on the WW2 board about painting so I thought I would add my extra tuppence worth here, which seems a more appropriate place for it.

I agree with Barry that there is a disturbing trend away from criticism of any kind, maybe it's a reflection on society where no-one fails they only have deferred success, or school sports days where no-one is allowed to win for fear of upsetting the children who don't. The worst example I saw was on another forum, which I won't name, where the most appalling figures were posted. Now I won't criticise anyone's painting, but if they ask for genuine feedback then that is what they should be given. All the responses were how wonderful the figures were and keep up the good work. One brave soul dared to raise the fact that the figures weren't actually very good and he got flamed.

Like many gamers I have too much lead, too many projects I want to do, and not enough time. The problem is that over the years as my painting improved and I learned new techniques (damn you Aly Morrison!) my speed dropped in proportion as I painted more shades, added glazes, details like eyes that can't be seen beyond two feet anyway. Now even the thought of having to paint more than 20-30 figures for a project puts me off starting it.

I recently picked up a couple of sets of rules from Peter Pig for the ECW and Wars of the Roses. The rules really impressed me, but I quickly realised that I couldn't paint the figures to play them this side of the next millennium unless I did something about my painting speed.

Now I really admire the work of many painters Dallimore, Dean, Imrie, Phillips and our very own Hilton and Wallace (a genuine undiscovered talent if ever there was one), but right at the top of the pile for me are Dave Andrews and Aly Morrison. Both are capable of the most exquisite work, but for me their real talent is how they paint armies with the minimum levels of shading and highlighting, but using bold, neat painting.

So taking a leaf from Mr Andrews' book I started some Wars of the Roses figures. It was a struggle not to overpaint the figures, but in the end I stuck at it. No more than 2 colours on any part of the figure and single colour where I could get away with it. The result, some of the best looking figures I have done in a long time and 30 figures in just under a week painting a couple of hours a night and a Satuday.

It has certainly made me think about painting styles. There comes a point where the level of effort to result is pointless unless you are painting for competition (which I see as a completely different hobby). The trick is to find the point where you get the maximum effect on the table for the minumim effort.

A bit of a ramble, but hopefully there may be some points that spark interest.

Pat
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Post by big-gazza » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:10 am

Hi,
funny I have been thinking about the same subject a bit of late.

I have had a mountain or 15mm WWII Russians sitting in a tool box (hidden from the good lady :roll: :twisted: ) for a couple of years now. As you said I have been caught up in becoming a 'better' painter and trying to do this and that with the figures that I have never got started.

I'm getting near the point of either having to start it or its off to e-bay for the hordes. Even though I could do with the cash I'd rather not e-bay them as I do really enjoy playing FOW (even with a constant string of defeats to Mr hilton :x :cry: ) and would like to expand my gaming past Brit infantry.

So is this the time to live up to the old Russian saying of 'Quantity has a quality all of its own'.

Realise it is o.k. to do just an o.k. paint job for gaming figures and keep the good stuff for shows.

Not every army has to be a work of art.

Gazza
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Post by RenevandenAssem » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:55 am

Hi Guys,

Even though I need to carefully hide the fact that my cloggies is far better than my English I would like to add some thoughts.

Pat has hit the mark on painting, and I must say that my experience has been the same so far. Becoming more adept at painting you keep loooking for ways to improve. However one day I played a wargame with figures that (dare I say) I would only tough with a tick woolen glove in fear of catching leadpoisoning (that way of painting if you know what I mean) but the fact was this did not minimize the fun in playing the wargame. At that moment I started reconsidering my painting.

So as already stated thats the part were you start on 2 paths, one of painting as good as possible for painting competitions which are then lost by a mile since some 20 year old who has just started painting 3 weeks gets much better results :cry: And the other path which leads to finished armies.

At the moment I am even experimenting (again) with a style that is not nice to see in a picture BUT for some reason looks really good in real life especially when seen on the table.

The basis for this is a black undercoat, drybrushed with white
After that controled washes of Vallejo color in combo with the magic wash miracle. After adding all the colors you have in mind (including some dirt et al) and everything is truly dry you drybrush again with a VERY VERY DRY brush with some light paint (be it greyish, sandish or whatever) all over the figure. The last thing to do is take Humbrol Matt Varnish add a small amount of semigloss humbrol black (amount to taste) and varnish the figure. The black is more or less sucked into all the lower parts of the figure. BASE AS GOOD AS YOU CAN.

The result is truly stunning on a wargame army.

Oh and how about this for speed:
I painted my son (8) 10 Chaos Space Marines someone had laying about, 3 metals and 7 plastics in ONE afternoon, from - plastic/metal till finish (unbased). Now I dont know if any of you know how much detail theres is on these figures, but it took me ONE afternoon to complete a Chaos Marine painted in layers and above all not satisfied with the way the armour turned out.

The only problem now is starting new periods and armies since I have sold a lot of unpainted lead because I was getting no army results at all.
Oh how big are the problems of a wargamer compared to those of the real world :wink: [/img]
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Post by barr7430 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:04 pm

Rene,

can you show us an image of this style pls :D
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Post by RenevandenAssem » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:46 pm

I'll see what I conjure up tomorrow afternoon.

However be warned as in the post that the close up view is much less prettier than a view from playing distance.

I'll see if I can do 2 shots so you can see the difference.

René
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Post by RenevandenAssem » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:10 pm

Barry,

If things work as they should this link:

http://paint-in.com/LOASpecial.html

Should link you to an image page I just pulled out of my wizards hat.
Clicking on the small image should lead to a larger one.

René
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Post by RenevandenAssem » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:16 pm

Barry et al,

The link in above image is working alright.
There are some pictures and text residues of the copied of page but that should not distract.

As mentioned before:

The Chaos Marines (AND Orc bike + rider) were painted in ONE afternoon with the mentioned procedure. As I told you close up things look well lets say not up to par. But seen from a bit of a distance things start to look pretty well in my opinion, of course they are then not to be compared to fully highlighted and blended masterpieces.

The Empire unit was painted in more or less one day (including basing) and give a nice and gritty look to the otherwise cleanly shaven and highly glossy looks you most often see on pictures. Dont comment on the colorchoice though since I just wanted to see if Orange and Blue looked good (being conplementary colors and all) on a fighting unit. THAT you may judge :lol:

Hope to hear what you think of the result.

René
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Post by barr7430 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:37 pm

This is lovely work Rene and the link does work :D
Your Empire unit is very interesting ands the orange/blue is not very obvious perhaps it's the light. They look quite earthy and actually more like the Landsknechts that they are probably modelled on that Gamesworkshop clean looking fantasy figures.

You mentioned a couple of particularly interesting things in one of your posts above:

magic wash miracle?????? what is that?

The semi-gloss mix in the matt varnish.... what purpose does this actually serve in the overall finish :shock:
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Post by RenevandenAssem » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:59 am

barr7430 wrote:magic wash miracle?????? what is that?
The semi-gloss mix in the matt varnish.... what purpose does this actually serve in the overall finish :shock:
Hi Barry,

Thanks for the compliments on the unit.
The result does give a grity looking unit.

Magic Wash is a floorcleaner (wash) which has its modelling origins in using it to colorcoat the plastic model glass windows. You know the see through plastic stuff you get with your ME 109's F16's etc. Most real canopies have some sort of sunprotection coat (the brownish glass). However the true property of the Klir (as it is know in Holland) is that surface tention in lessened and when drying tends to suck the pigment into the lower parts (so in effect you can lessen the spotty appearance when using inks etc etc). There are a lot of painters that mix this stuff with water (4:1 is mostly used) and don't use water on its own to mix up their paints. I have discovered that especially with Vallejo the combo works wonderfully well (I think due to the fact that Vallejo has a LOT of pigment in their paints).

There is a link somewhere on the net explaining all this way better then I ever will be able to but I dont have it in my favorites anymore. In this link you also get all the names in all different countries.

Now the semigloss black mixed into the matt varnish. I dont know the scientific reasoning behind that but after having tried it with both matt and gloss paints the semi gloss seems to do the trick, of getting into all the lower parts better than matt and gloss. Perhaps matt dries to fast so the pigment does not have enough time to collect ? Who knows. Anyway it does work especially when you combine this with a trick Ian Stables used and told me about. Ian used to buy a number of jars (glass versions) of Humbrol matt varnish and let them stand for some time. When you see that the matt part (bottom) and glossy medium (top) have seperated he would use a paper towel (I gave him the idea to use a pipet) to take away an amount of the medium. This way the matt part gets a higher percentage in the bottle henve a MUCH matter finish. And when applied in two tin layers it does the trick very nice. It almost gets as matt as the illustrious Blackfriars but without all the hassle.

Hopefully you can understand my semi English well enough if not just shout and I will try to explain things in a different way.

Just one more thing.
The real trick in this method is the DRY DRY DRY brush.
Do it with a BIG brush (I use Da Vinci nr 7 !)
And do it very DRY.
Also important in this light is the color you use for the drybrush.
It does make a difference when using light sand instead of silvergrey for example. I have chosen for a greyish color if the subject has cool colors and for a yellowish sandy color if it has warm colors.

Anough paint mumbo jumbo.

René
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