Update on BLB base sizes

Any questions relating to Beneath the Lily Banners rule system.
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Update on BLB base sizes

Post by barr7430 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:13 pm

Met Ray, Mark & Rob at Albannich today and a couple of questions arose about me changing base sizes on my Grand Alliance stuff.

So here is the rationale and perhaps a little reassurance for those who may be thinking the have to rebase their entire collections!

In 28mm scale
The past....
Standard infantry frontage is 15mm with depth 20 -25mm. I have always gone for deeper bases in order to protect bayonets and swords from bending/breakages etc. So on 45mm x 50mm bases I usually place the figures further towards the back of the base thus having adequate protection for the figures.
When I did my GNW units about 10 years ago I experimented with 60 x 60mm bases. The reason was purely aesthetic as I wanted to do some scenic ground work. The flanking bases both had the figures on a 45mm total frontage leaving a 15mm gap on either flank before the edge of the base was reached. The central base was 45mm x 60mm to maintain the same distribution of figures across all bases.
Examples of this appear in BLB see Swedish Guard Grenadiers and some of the GNW Swedish and Russian figures.

The present....
Since beginning to refresh my collection using the Reiver figures (which are very bulky 28s), I have found the 45 x 50 bases a bit constricted.

Combining a need for more space with an increased number of figures in each unit (I am now putting up to 26 figures into my Reiver Dutch units)..
I have resorted to a new base size ; 60 x 60mm (as per above)

In the front three bases I am placing 5- 8 figures in each base. The distribution and orientation is as described above except that the central base is also now 60 x 60 and I am keeping the continuity of the front rank of this stand by placing 4 figures there instead of three.
The pike base at the rear(also 60 x 60) has now 6 figures on it too.

NONE OF THIS HAS ANY EFFECT ON THE GAME WHATSOEVER. My units still fire as three stands of muskets and the unit is destroyed when it takes 18 casualties. It does not enhance or reduce the fighting effectiveness nor disadvantage players. It is purely because the Reiver figures are bigger, I wanted to bulk out the units and keep them symmetrical. It may appear that I have done a lot of extra painting for nothing but in fact the visual effect is extremely striking.
I will probably resort to 60 x 60mm bases for the Reiver Horse too as these are bulky. Examples of this already exist.. see Von Barnikov's Horse in the Dutch Cavlary Gallery.

I think the Reiver guys WILL do the larger base size if it is requested in battlaion packs.. they'll tell us here if the won't :oops:
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Post by Darkman » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:07 am

Is it your intention by posting these base sizes on here to announce what the bases in the rules are going to move to or is this just a personnel preference.

I have to agree that when basing 28mm figures the base sizes in BLB are a bit on the restricted size. Using Dixon or Foundry is not to much of a problem, but when it comes to Front Rank I worked out that I could not get them on to the bases without them looking very awkward. Therefore I had to go with a 20mm frontage for the foot. As I wanted to also represent some visual difference between Rank firing and Platoon (I am doing the WSS with Front Rank) I based them 20mm deep per figure plus 10mm extra, This allows for officers being forward and lying down casualties. The Platoon firers are 9 figures wide 2 deep and the Rank 6 figures wide 3 deep.

If I need to I will make movement bases to bring the Rank firers as wide as the Platoon but without losing the visual look.

As for Pikes (doing the early period with dixons using BLB bases) I will only have about 3 Pikes staggered on a 45mm x 30mm base which behind the standards looks ok. I think that a lot of pikes would make it look to ECW.

Cavalry also had to be expanded to 25mm frontage per figure so as not to have to start staggering the figures on the bases. They are still 50mm deep. This works as I do not intend to use any galloping horses in the units.

I think the only thing that might look odd Barry is when you place your units in columns of march especially with the end bases.
Apart from that as long as both sides are using the same bases there would not be a problem.
Oh other than having to paint up extra figures for units.
I have to say that I would rather paint more figures for new units than more figures for exsisting units.
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Reiver miniatures

Post by J Anderson » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:13 am

Hi

I use riever figures and did have a bit of a problem basing them on the 45 frontage especially the advancing stuff with bayonets and charging cavalry. However I staggered the cavalry which looks great and did manage to squeeze the advancing infantry six to a base which also looks how a proper unit should be shoulder to shoulder. The marching stuff is no problem whatsoever. Another problem for me is the amount of different poses you get in a pack (which to some is a bouns) as I like a more unifrom look but as I have quite a few figures I could mix and match the poses within several units before I painted them up.

Jim
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Post by barr7430 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:48 am

Darkman,

no official 'trailer' to a base size change :wink: As I have mentioned before it is purely an aesthetic for me and regardless of base size it would make no difference in the rules to shooting or melee combat.
Crack on with your own method of basing.. pics might be nice for folks to see!
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Post by quindia » Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:12 pm

Barry, I find this funny. My ECW collection was inspired by the appearance of your TYW armies. My initial order of bases were 45x50mm. However, my Bicorne and Renegade were much larger than your Foundry and Dixon and I ran into the same problem, opting ultimately for 60x60mm.

Welcome to the world of big 28's!
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Post by billwargames » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:11 am

Are the cavalry also 60 x 60 ?

regards

Bill..........
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Post by barr7430 » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:36 am

Would work.. I am considering it for myself
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Post by clapezza2 » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:58 pm

Darkman, have You based your figures in single bases of 2cm x 2cm?
Your idea of show the platoon fire and rank fire difference is very good.
I like the BLB ruleset very much and I'm trying to build a Marlburian Army but in the rule book no suggestion appear to mark the different basing of a platoon fire and a rank fire unit.
Some other suggestion?

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Post by Darkman » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:49 am

clapezza if you go to this page you will see what I mean. http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/fightin ... 9&start=15

All units are still on 3 bases it was just that I wanted to have some representation of the difference. If I think that it would be better for them to have the same frontage per unit then I would do some movement trays with a 30mm blank ends on (I'll knock one up to show you what I mean) It was just that I found it difficult to get Front Rank figures on a 15mm frontage.
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Post by clapezza2 » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:58 pm

Darkman, thank You for the pictures. Your figures are very nice and the basing too. Such basing is really right to reflect the different doctrine of war of the opposing Armies.
Have You done the bases by yourself or did You buy them?
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Post by Darkman » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:49 pm

Hi I did the bases myself. It is this
http://www.daler-rowney.com/prod_catalo ... uctID=1539#

it is a big sheet not just the piece you see. It is about 2mm thick and cuts easily with a scaple/craft knife being only card. Costs about £1.75 a sheet.

I also cut about 2mm off the corner as I think it looks better.
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Post by Bluebear » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:34 am

IF you are one of those people who is concerned with the difference between 3-rank and 4-rank units, the use of 60mm and 45mm bases (respectively) makes sense.

Take a 600-man battalion. If it is three ranks deep, the frontage is 200 men; if four ranks deep, 150 men. This means that if you base your 3-rank (platoon firing) troops on a 60mm wide base; and your 4-rank (volley firing) troops on a 45mm wide base, you will have the correct ratio of actual frontage covered.

Of course, if you aren't concerned about it, either base size will do (depending upon your miniatures).

Anyway, that's my take on the matter.


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Base sizes for front rank

Post by Churchill » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:45 pm

Hello all,

For my Marlburian's I'm using Front Rank figures and I've decided to base the infantry on 50mm squared bases see my recent pic's on my Blenheim OOB thread.For the cavalry 60mm squared.....then theres no confusion about frontage and depth is there Jim :lol: who stuck his first battalion on the wrong way around 50mm frontage by 45mm depth using super glue......oh I did laugh when he told me the struggle he had cutting them off again :lol:

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Post by Saxon Warrior » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:46 pm

H'hm, I based my first battalion as per the book. I found the buggers were so tightly packed that subsequent battallions have a 50mm frontage.
Ah well it would be boring if we all did the same thing.
Anyway they're your toys base 'em how you like I say.
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Post by barr7430 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:57 am

As the rules say chaps... it's up to you how you base them. Modern figure ranges are bigger and so the 45mm frontage I used for Foundry and Dixons is very difficult with Reiver and Front Rank. I t will not affect the rules so don't worry how you base them :D
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