Dragoons and Grenadiers

Any questions relating to Beneath the Lily Banners rule system.
Post Reply
Schomberg
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:55 am

Dragoons and Grenadiers

Post by Schomberg » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:30 pm

OK, so Dragoons and Grenadiers can be based in loose order as individual models or close order with 5 figs per stand for Dragoons or 6 figs per stand for Grenadiers. I have a couple of questions.

Dragoons in Loose Order are harder to hit and move better over rough ground. They suffer from losing their First Fire option though.

Are the rules exactly the same if they are in close order?
I would think yes, except that they need to breakup into loose order to gain their movement advantages. Is that a reasonable interpretation?

Do Grenadiers in Loose Order also lose First Fire and if they are in close order do they retain it?

Finally, for now, how should Grenadiers be designated?

For example, Brigadier de la Méloniére has decided to join the three Grenadier companies of the battalions under his command into a converged Grenadier Battalion for a proposed assault upon a breach in Limerick's wall. His troops are classed as Drilled. Would the Grenadiers be given Drilled Elite Status or would they be Veteran?
User avatar
barr7430
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5905
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:22 pm
Location: EK,Scotland
Contact:

Re: Dragoons and Grenadiers

Post by barr7430 » Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:16 pm

Let me take those questions one at a time

Dragoons in Loose Order are harder to hit and move better over rough ground. They suffer from losing their First Fire option though.
Are the rules exactly the same if they are in close order?
I prefer not to give first fire bonuses to dragoons and see them as 'loose order' regardless of how they are based, The basing is not the relevant thing. It is their modus operdani. They were not line of battle troops. Their missions were usually built around scouting, advanced guards, mopping up, holding a position until relieved.

I would think yes, except that they need to breakup into loose order to gain their movement advantages. Is that a reasonable interpretation?
As you prefer. I don't see any issue with this.

Do Grenadiers in Loose Order also lose First Fire and if they are in close order do they retain it?
I would not classify grneadiers as loose order troops full stop. If you wish to put them in loose order then they should loose any first fire bonus

Finally, for now, how should Grenadiers be designated?
Elite but depending on their parent unit they could be Raw- Elite, Drilled-Elite or Veteran - Elite. The Elite suffix is simply a psychological self image of 'I am special' not a measure of martial ability. The Huguenot regiments were not all Frenchmen and not all Frenchmen were regular soldiers defected from the French army. They had been campaignimg im Ireland since 1689 and de la Meloniere's had a lot of experience in Connaught. I would designate them Drilled
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

Henry Ford
Schomberg
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:55 am

Re: Dragoons and Grenadiers

Post by Schomberg » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:15 pm

Thank you Barry. Dragoons are always classed as Loose Order and Grenadiers as Close order regardless of how they are based. That makes sense now and the choice of basing is simply down to the individual with no bearing on their order.

Grenadiers are designated as Elite rather than going up a dIe type. Nice.

Our own 10mm battalions are 60 strong. I reckon that make a company round about 5 figures if the converged grenadiers are made up of the men of the thirteenth company.

At twenty miniatures per base that means that each base represents the grenadiers of 4 battalions. I have fifteen battalions and I reckon it reasonable that most of those battalions would have Grenadier companies. 12 of my Battalions are designated as Drilled and 3 as Raw. So my converged Grenadier battalion would be Drilled Elite with three stands. Does that sound reasonable?

I have one final question about Dragoons.

If taken on foot only, how many points? Is three squadrons with Flintlocks 1.5 points or 4.5 points?
User avatar
barr7430
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5905
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:22 pm
Location: EK,Scotland
Contact:

Re: Dragoons and Grenadiers

Post by barr7430 » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:51 pm

All good on everything you wrote 8)

With regard to your dragoons on foot - treat them as a Drilled infantry battalion with flintlock. Don't pay any extra points for the flintlock because they don't get the first fire bonus.
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

Henry Ford
Post Reply