Artillery Question

Questions, chat, feedback and developments relating to REPUBLIC TO EMPIRE... Wargaming the wars of Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Raymondh
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Artillery Question

Post by Raymondh » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:38 am

Forgive my ignorance. but where in the rule book does it cover counter battery fire for artillery? I'm sure they are in there somewher but I'm bu*$#$@d if I can find them!

I just know I'm missing something obvious but I have to ask. :oops:

Thoroughly enjoying the rules by the way. I tried out "Black Powder" today at our local club and didn't find them very inspiring. Does'nt give you the feel for the period that R2E does!
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barr7430
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Post by barr7430 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:11 pm

Hello Raymond.. asking questions is not an inconvenience.. that's what this forum is for!

Re Artillery and counter battery fire.. there is no specific rule for this but the area which would act as a guide is P72 target priorities. If neither 1 nor 2 applied then a battery may be able to target enemy batteries firing on them IF

it supported the endeavours if its parent formation (Brigade/Division/Corps)

or alternatively under priority 4.. at the player's discretion.

A battery in not compelled to return fire on an enemy battery which is firing upon it. tThe target priorities override this as they would in reality. If a battery was under fire from another battery it would not be at the discretion of the battery commander to return fire but rather the decision of some senior officer.

Hope this helps


B
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Post by Greystreak » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:18 pm

Just to expand the pragmatic aspect of the point slightly, see the Artillery Shooting Modifiers Table on p. 72, second line from bottom, "Target moving fast or dispersed***" - Reduce total dice available by 50%, and the notes below the table explaining that *** modifier applies to Charging cavalry, deployed artillery, and skirmishers.
Bryce
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Post by Anonymous » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:32 pm

Hi Raymondh,

You didnt miss it because there isnt a point for it. Reality tells us that there were only very rare moments when batteries pounding each other into submisson because there were plenty of other targets to hit. The rare occassion when it was decided to silence a battery some french leader used horse artillery to do the job. They used skirmishers and some battallions to keep the battery occupied then they sent one or two horse batteries forward within canister range and they whiped out the gun crews.
Somewhere this was called an Artillery Charge:)
There are some rules which give you the opportunity for counterbattery fire but we play napoleonic and fire roundshots not grenades which detonate at impact! The time for that was not even reached in the ACW.

A battery was often placed on a higher point on the battlefield to be able to pound the enemy without breaks. A roundshot that bounce up a hill looses much of its power and often get stuck before hitting anything. If the battery where placed on the flat ground, i.e., polish artillery men tended to throw earth up in front of their battery position to keep low comming roundshots out.

Lets take into account a battery is a linear target with about 90 - 150 men; they are in a very loose order, part of them running back and forward carrying powder sacks and roundshots from the rear posted train back to the guns. What chance would you think you have to hit them? Maybe with a 8 roundshots you kill 5 or 6 men. The other troops on the battlefield would feel themselve lucky! So as target priority tells you in RtE where you should place your shots first... so dont waste the 3 turns for killing 1 gun against the chance to destroy the spirit of a the charging or advancing unit that cames right against you.

My thougts as a french Marechal :twisted:
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:07 pm

Hah!
A broadside of answers from 3 directions :D

One from the man who wrote the rules, one from the man who read the rules :wink: and one from a (man) fool who read the rules and tries to explain history :lol: :lol: :lol:

2:0 for the northsea Islanders :!:
Listen to them, they know what they are talking about


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Günter
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obriendavid
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Post by obriendavid » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:03 pm

Raymond, apart from the answers above the main point against counter battery fire is that you only have four rounds of firing before the battery has to pull out and refit so you want to pick targets that are easier to hit.
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Post by Raymondh » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:33 am

Thanks guys.

What you say makes perfect sense.

Very much appreciated.

Ray
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Post by Scruff » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:37 am

Sorry to resurrect this post but im going through the forum looking for answers while playing first test game, bigger post to follow later... But,

To me it looks like no one actually answered the question as this came up for me as well, Russian battery with nothing in front of it except the poor French battery on a hill.
How many crew and casualties can a battery have/take?

Barry's reply mentions target priority and then moved onto return fire, Greystreak mentions the dispersed target modifier (18 dice halved is 9, rolling about 5 hits a turn)

The chat about other targets, is valid and I sure would like to, but with flat ground and 2 brigades of infantry piling into a brigade of French, there's no room for a 6 gun battery to "squeeze" in and to the other flank is a small hamlet blocking the view. So my battery has caused him to bunch upm out of the way of it so to speak for the moment and that left the french on the hill picking on my brigade..

More thoughts later when I'm done for the day

cheers
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Post by barr7430 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:44 pm

Scruff,

the answers are actually in there but perhaps not directly addressing your new question so;
CB IS allowed if no other targets are available or stated in the Target Priorities

Casualties when caused are distributed across the battery.
Resolve checks are necessary if 25% or more casualties are inflicted.
Check: PRINCIPLES OF ARTILLERY FIRING P72 for info on:

Minimum number of crew models necessary to fire or manhandle a gun.

Does this answer the question??
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Post by Scruff » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:18 pm

Thanks Barry, I saw the crew model numbers there and thought that was what it ment.

looks like counter battery is worth is at times as 2 rounds of shooting and a 6lb battery that was banging away, effectively ceases to exist ...

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Post by barr7430 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:10 am

Yup, we've seen it a few times. 6pdr batteries are actually quite brittle if hit a few times. Annoying them with skirmishers is a very cost effective way of getting rid of them particularly if the rest of the army has moved off any they have no supports - often they are positioned in a very rearward spot and the gunners ROUT off table and off course, never come back!
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Post by Juan Mancheño » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:05 pm

Very interesting the comment about the use of canister agains artillery crew, Günter; this is a great counterbattery action! I like to use my guns offensively (sometime lossing them in the process :( ) so this idea is very, very interesting and useful for me.

Reading the rulebook, I didn´t find, really, a "Counterbattery Fire" paragraph but I understood that this option, as many others is into the rules. I can use this option... if I know how (and when) it was used historically and if I can afford the waste of my (very limited) pool of shots.
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