Attack Order

[Baron]

Have played a couple of game now, and just re-read the rules over the weekend and a couple of questions arose.

Firstly, I think we have been playing the Attack order incorrectly in that when the order to "Attack" is issued, the brigade should not move until the next turn unless on an exploit. So presumably if a brigade is on an Advance order, it can then move and if subsequently the exploit points are paid, then it would not move a second time unless a second lot of exploit points were paid?

The second question was around charges when on an Attack Order. Under this order it states that units in certain formations "MUST" charge, do you need to expend additional unit MPs to do so and if so, how do you enforce this as, it would be quite easy to expend your remaining MPs elsewhere and therefore not have to abide by this rule?

Many thanks

Justin

[barr7430]

Point 1 : Correct. When ANY order change is issued the brigade receiving it does not move that turn and assumes the new order next turn UNLESS exploiting. The delay is quite logical:

Divisional level or above General officer issues order: order conveyed to brigade commander who then passes it his regimental/battlaion commanders. Such a process is higly unlikely to be be conducted on the 'hoof'. Halts would be made, instructions given. clarification questions asked, redirection advised - orders passed out to Captains and company officers, sergeants briefed etc etc.

Hence the delay.

In an expoitation - a far higher intensity of staff work is put in to enable rapid execution of critical.. potentially battle winning orders.

2nd point: Units with ATTACK orders MUST charge, yes true but cannot do so if there are no available MPs in that turn. Such charges must be seen as priority even if other brigades without ATTACK orders have to spend a turn without orders.

Hope this clarifies..

cheers

[John Michael]

Sorry, I need a little bit of clarification. In the game I am running now Turn 3 starts with the French on a MOVE Bde order. They get 3 MP and convert to an ATTACK order. Zero MP left. Do they have to move this turn or next turn.

John

[barr7430]

Next!

[quindia]

You can still charge with a Single Unit Action on the same turn you changed orders, if the unit(s) in question doesn't fire in the shooting turn (and you still have MP's left), as Dave did in the battle report (page 125, third column)...

[John Michael]

Well I think that means NO MOVE!!

many thanks,

John

[barr7430]

Yup,

Clarence is right on that one! That situation is a direct result of playtesting!!

[Baron]

Again, thanks for the quick reply. So just to clarify the second question:

If I have two bigades, one on Attack and one on Defend, do I first spend the points maintaining orders for both brigades and then if any MPs are left over they must be used on units in charge range and under the Attack order to issue charges?

Also if I have 4 units of the brigade on Attack which are in charge range, do they all have to charge if I have enough MPs?

Lastly, in one of our test games we had a Cavalry brigade which advanced against an advancing infantry, and switched to Attack under an exploit. The infantry successfully reacted to the charge threat and the leading battalions formed square. Next turn the cavalry must either have it's orders changed or charge the squares, is this interpretation correct?

Many thanks

[barr7430]

Baron,

pretty much right on all counts of interpretation there!!

Here is a little perspective on brigade orders:

Some gamey players may consider the cavalry being force to charge the squares as madness but I would explain with the following:

Most wargamers have neither been general officers in Napoloeon's Army nor in the modern combat military. They would think charging wargaming squares on a wargaming table is madness because:

1. They've read some history books
2. They've seen WATERLOO
3. They don't want to lose a wargame..
4. They want their favourite units to stay on the table a bit longer

Therefore they have the sagacity to deem the activity madness. In terms of a table top game it is but the whole objective of realistic rules is to try and recreate the challenges of the battlefield AND still win!

The men who led 8,000 of Europe's best cavalry against the Allied squares at Waterloo were veteran generals and colonels of campaigns in Spain, Russia, Germany and France yet they still did it.. why?

Not because they were congenital idiots.. they were all heroes! but because
1. They were obeying orders
2. They had experience of such tactics breaking the enemy
3. They did not know what waited them over crest of a ridge.
4. They had enormous self belief.
5. Their regiments were astonishingly well trained and loyal
6. Noise, smoke, body parts flying around them
7. A horse is not an easy thing to control, 8,000 are an even bigger challenge

When brigades are given orders, they must obey them or die trying. That's what happened on the Napoleonic battlefield and that's what I've tried to recreat on the table top.

Republic to Empire does not permit handbreak turns on the tabletop!
Exploitation can be a battle winner but it is also a bit of a gamble.

[Baron]

Thanks again and I agree with your approach to try and reduce player control.

We are about to start a campaign, and I'm hoping to nail down a few aspects of the rules before we kick off. One other question is on the casualties during close combat which seem very high. My thinking is that cavalry should be considered very much a one or two shot weapon and you should rarely get them back once unleashed. But for campaign purposes we should halve the casualties at the end of the battle to represent the unit reforming (particularly for cavalry, and perhaps 2/3 for infantry), does this make sense?

Justin

[barr7430]

Yes it does.

The casualty question comes up quite a lot. What we are simulating with the level of casualties is 'effectiveness' not dead and wounded.
The compulsory losses for winners indicate: fatigue, broken weapons, disorentation as well as losses.
On the campaign question: giving back the losses as stated sounds absolutely fine except I suggest you might want to consider giving a variable component of return as follows:

1. Winners 50-75%
2. Losers 25-50%

Just a suggestion

[CoffinDodger]

The second question was around charges when on an Attack Order. Under this order it states that units in certain formations "MUST" charge, do you need to expend additional unit MPs to do so and if so, how do you enforce this as, it would be quite easy to expend your remaining MPs elsewhere and therefore not have to abide by this rule?

Many thanks

Justin

Aren't the charge order costs already covered by the brigade order?

Jim

[CoffinDodger]

Sorry, people, I thought I had deleted the above post. Please disregard it.

The second question was around charges when on an Attack Order. Under this order it states that units in certain formations "MUST" charge, do you need to expend additional unit MPs to do so and if so, how do you enforce this as, it would be quite easy to expend your remaining MPs elsewhere and therefore not have to abide by this rule?

Many thanks

Justin

Aren't the charge order costs already covered by the brigade ATTACK Order as stated in column #2 of "Attack orders at a glance"?

Jim

[obriendavid]

Jim, check out page 44 where it describes charging, it mentions that the controlling player must have available MP's to launch charges.
The description of Attack Orders on page 39 mentions that units wishing to perform additional actions (ie; charging) which is a single unit action then the cost is found on the Single Unit Action Table and the cost is dependent on the training of the unit wishing to charge. The reason why charging is not included within the Brigades orders is to stop players launching massed charges with every unit in their Brigade for a cost of only 2 or 3 MP's and that wouldn't take into account the variable quality of troops within the Brigade.

Hope this makes sense?
It's good to see more discussion about the rules which means people are obviously reading and starting to play with them.
Cheers
Dave

[CoffinDodger]

Dave,

Ouch! I've been playing it wrong then (only played solo so far, so no damage done save to my pride in my reading and comprehension skills ). It definitely says in the "At a glance" sections for all orders that actions in the second column are covered by Brigade Order APs.

That's where I've been getting confused. Are there any other second column actions that require APs or is it just this one aberation?

I will read this more carefully tonight.

Jim