First fire

obriendavid · Post by **obriendavid** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:36 pm

Barry, just had my first read through of the rules and having been involved with R2E the new mechanisms seem quite straight forward.

I was wondering if 1st fire should still be included because as you state each move represents about 20 minutes of time in which a many number of shots would be able to be fired. If you are counting first fire because of slowly loaded muskets and preperation then you should really start counting fouled muskets after a couple of rounds of shooting and this would probably happen all within the first 20 minute period. This is one rule that we originally had in the old version of R2E and we dropped it then but perhaps you feel this reflects the Marlburian period better?

Cheers
Dave

Post by **barr7430** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:00 pm

Actually Dave you pretty much asked and answered the question like I would have!

For some quirky reason the bonus for 1st volley seems quite a nice little 'special moment'. If saved for a short range, standing still, good dice throw from 'Guards' moment it could be a real cracker and one that gamers would remember. I am glad we dropped it from R2E although I have had Angus complaining to me only today that he now thinks his British lines in the Peninsula will not be strong enough to repel French columns because R2E musketry is ineffectual

Would be good to hear form the other playtest groups on 1st Fire.. or actually from any BLB players out there

Darkman · Post by **Darkman** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:29 pm

Hi I think that First fire should still be used, but it should be less effective at long and medium range. This would mean that people would try to get to close range to use it.

If you say that 4 is a better than average throw then.
Then long range -2 first fire +4 all muskets +1 dice throw 4 total 7 casualties 2
Short range +3 first fire +4 all muskets +1 dice throw 4 total 12 casualties 6
But to get to that point the other person also got to shoot at you
Medium range +0 all muskets +1 dice throw 4 total 5 casualties 2
Short range +3 all muskets +1 dice throw 4 total 8 casualties 3
Short range +3 all muskets +1 dice throw 4 total 8 casualties 3 (you do not get this if you move to short range and first fire but then you only get 4 casualties)

So it makes it worth while to start shooting at long range instead of waiting.

I don't think you should get the first fire bonus at long range and maybe +2 at medium.

Captain of Dragoons · Post by **Captain of Dragoons** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:29 pm

I think first fire would apply with the Swedes (Great Northern War). They would rush (GaPa?) the enemy line holding fire for the last possible moment unleasing a volley at close range and then get stuck in with the pike.

cheers
Edward

j1mwallace · Post by **j1mwallace** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:30 pm

We like the first fire. It gives you another tactical decision to make as the real commander did. Units did still try to get very close in this period before delivering their first volley. it also makes it more of a challenge for horse in particular to charge foot who have never fired before.

Post by **barr7430** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:09 pm

My immediate reaction to your post Steve was .. yes good point but then I thought a little and saw that a first volley at long range is still quite disadvantaged with the -2 and the chances of getting a 4+ are obviously 50%. Bring unit quality into it and it becomes even less definite in terms of outcome.

I think I'll probably leave this one as it is now

Darkman · Post by **Darkman** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:25 pm

I think what I was getting at is that unless you are faced with cavalry you may as well start firing at long range. You in the long run will cause more casualties than waiting for your opponent to get close. (yes I now that you could roll rubbish dice but you could roll really good dice)(but not me

)

Plus you will be making him take morale tests quicker.
Suppose I just like the thought of 2 units face to face blasting away at each other until one gives way.

obriendavid · Post by **obriendavid** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:57 pm

barr7430 wrote: I am glad we dropped it from R2E although I have had Angus complaining to me only today that he now thinks his British lines in the Peninsula will not be strong enough to repel French columns because R2E musketry is ineffectual )

Just get him to ask Jack how effect British shooting was in all the playtests we had, especially against Jack's cavalry.

Cheers
Dave

obriendavid · Post by **obriendavid** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:07 am

I'm quite happy with 1st fire whichever way it is finally agreed I was only playing devils advocate.

Barry another point that you mentioned at our Malplaquet game was that troops that stood still should get to fire before troops moving. This wasn't mentioned in the rules as far as I could see and I can't see it in this lot either. Have you decided to drop this idea?

We had tried that rule in a few games before and we found that it gave a huge advantage to the stationary unit as the receiving unit already had a minus for moving and shooting without needing any minus for casualties as well.

Cheers
Dave

flick40 · Post by **flick40** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:05 am

I know we are, but lets all keep in mind realism vs playability balance. If we start adding this for that modifiers we are taking away from playability for a little bit of realism.

That said, we like the first fire modifier. The shoot first because we didn't move idea, not so much.

Post by **barr7430** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:49 am

Actually the
'stationary fire first' rule might have crept in as a house mod with may OR may have crept out in the same way a while ago I really can't remember

On refelction I am going to leave it out as the -2 Moving and Shooting is enough disadvantage to attacking troops.

obriendavid · Post by **obriendavid** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:39 am

Good!