Prussian Cavalry for Lutzen 1813.

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Prussian Cavalry for Lutzen 1813.

Post by Churchill » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:28 pm

Ray.
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Re: Prussian Cavalry for Lutzen 1813.

Post by CoffinDodger » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:25 pm

Churchill wrote:
2. What are Freiwilligerjager??? .
Pronounced Free Willy jager, I believe they were whale hunters. :wink:

Jim
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Post by Greystreak » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:23 pm

Q1. Were the Guard Light Cavalry...Lancers or Hussars???
A1. A 'composite' Regiment comprising: two squadrons of dragoons, one squadron of hussars, and one squadron of Guard Kosaken (added Feb. 1813). [In 1815 they were split up and bulked out into separate regiments by 'type'--Guard Hussars, Guard Dragoons, etc.]

Q2. What are Freiwilligerjager???
A2. "Volunteers". Usually scions of the middle classes who 'volunteered' for patriotic duty and provided their own arms, uniforms and horses at personal expense. (For some examples see: http://www.napoleon-series.org/military ... umann.html).

Q3. What calibre guns were used by the Guard Horse and Line Horse Batteries.
A3. Guard Horse Artillery #4 - 6pdrs (von Willmann); Horse Btty #10 - 6pdrs; Horse Btty #3 (from Steinmetz) - 6pdrs.

Sources: George Nafziger, Lützen & Bautzen: Napoleon's Spring Campaign of 1813; Chicago: Emperor's Press, 1992. David Nash, The Prussian Army 1808-1815; London: Almark Publications, 1972.

Hope that helps.
Bryce
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Post by Anonymous » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:36 pm

Ray,

The Guard Light Cavalry are, according to my sources, the Garde-Kosaken(lancers).
The Freiwillige Jäger Detachments are a unit of troopers, similiar to the Eclereurs of the French, who were attached to this units, wearing almost similiar uniforms.

http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/aufsatz/plauen2.html

(Sorry, the language is only german but it shows you some pics of them)

For the guns the Prussians kept their 6pdrs, 12pdrs and 7pdr how. After the losses of the last wars there were some shortages of them but even for their reduced army size they kept quite large amounts of them in their arsenals.

Scharnhorst has written about artillery in service (prussian and saxon) and refers to the prussian batteries as follows:
A 6pdr-Foot Battery has 6x6pdr guns and 2x7pdr How with 116 men.
A 12pdr Foot Battery has 6x12pdr guns and 2x10pdr How with 184 men
A 6pdr Horse Battery has the same as the foot battery but 132 men.

Hope this helps

Günter
PS.: Looks like I was somewhat slow with my research:)
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Prussian Cavalry for Lutzen 1813.

Post by Churchill » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:30 pm

Ray.
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Post by msk » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:44 pm

Hello Ray,

I thought I ought to clear up some apparent confusion about Freiwillige Jager for you. Many (but not all) regiments of infantry and cavalry had such volunteer detachments and, as mentioned earlier in the thread, they often came from family backgrounds that were wealthy enough for these men to equip themselves - the motivation being that it was seen as a route to an officer commission.

However, each Freiwillige Jager detachment was specific to its parent (or "Stamm") regiment. So a guard regiment's volunteers were not the same as a line infantry regiment's volunteers or a landwehr regiment's volunteers. The Knotel plate you reproduce of a Silesian landwehr cavalry F-J detachment is precisely that and nothing more: i.e. it was attached to a Silesian landwehr cavalry regiment and was not the same as the F-J detachments attached to the Guard regiments.

Typically, F-J detachments were uniformed similarly to their parent regiments but with green being the predominant uniform colour.

Hope that sheds some light,
Martin
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Post by kiwipeterh » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:30 pm

I have the Leichtes Garde-Kavallerie-Regiment being formed of:

> Garde-Ulanen-Eskadron
> Normal-Dragoner-Eskadron
> Normal-Husaren-Eskadron
> Garde-Kosaken

So a squadron each of uhlans, dragoons, hussars & cossacks to which were attached 2 squadrons of Freiwilligen Jager.

Happy hunting.

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Prussian Cavalry for Lutzen 1813.

Post by Churchill » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:19 pm

Ray.
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The Prussian Army 1808 - 1815 by David Nash.

Post by Churchill » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:21 pm

Ray.
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Post by msk » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:31 pm

Hi Ray,

The Nash book wears its age with dignity. Back when it was published in the early 70s it was the definitive book on the subject and even now it bears up well to scrutiny. It does, however, contain a number of errors so don't rely on it as your sole source. You've got a bargain with your softcover copy - I won't tell you how much I paid for my 1st edition hardback :-(

Oh, and going back to earlier posts about the Knotel plates - I'm not remotely offended by your use of it. The reason I've posted all these things on my blog is so that fellow collectors of Prussian, Saxon (and soon other nations') armies can make use of them.

Enjoy!
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Post by Churchill » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:53 pm

Ray.
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Post by msk » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:19 pm

Well Ray, there isn't much in print specifically about Prussian cavalry. The only obvious suggestion I can make is the Osprey MAA172 - Prussian Cavalry of the Napoleonic Wars #2 1807-1815.
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Post by kiwipeterh » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:44 pm

There is one potential book to come out in the future.

Over on PMT, errr ... I mean TMP :roll: in the thread http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=209259 Stephen Summerfield wrote (in part):

"I am thinking upon what should be my next book writing project. I have a 90% complete manuscript upon the Prussian Cavalry 1808-15. I am wondering whether I should be put on the list of books to be finished."

This book would partner up to his two already published works on the Prussian infantry:
- Prussian Infantry 1808-40: Volume 1 Line and Guard 1808-14
- Prussian Infantry 1808-1840: Volume 2 – Jager, Reserve and New Regiments 1813-40.

I'm not sure if the book would come out in time for you but Stephen has always been very good at supplying information if queried in the past. An offer to assist with the book may even get you an electronic draft.

At the very least a response on the TMP thread may help decide him to go ahead with the book.

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What figures to use for Prussian Garde Kosaken

Post by Churchill » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:32 pm

Ray.
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Post by kiwipeterh » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:14 am

Howdies Ray

A potpourri of random off the cuff answers! :lol:

Re dragoons: I'd be happy with this and some judicious paint application but note that the guard dragoons had a rear peak to their shako. Also note that the Calpe dragoons are up for a resculpt at some stage.

Re uhlans: the guard uhlans wore a czapka, not a shako.

Re hussars and horse artillery: yep. Some judicious painting will do the job.

Kosaken: have you seen http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/tafel ... 02_25.html
Also the Nash book has a pictures and description on page 61. Will the Front Rank Cossacks of the Guard do the job is up to you really. I think the saddle cloth is the wrong shape (pointed at the rear rather than rounded but this could be reshaped).

Good luck.

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