Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

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Friedrich August I.
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Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by Friedrich August I. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:09 am

Dear Friends,

For some times now I try to bring up this theme but I have been to reluctant to do so :roll: .

The recently made introduction by Barry that they have started to rework the look of the gun barrels has changed my mind on this matter.
As we are here, in this part of the forum, to share our views about how the armies in GNW should shape up I like to tell here my view about Artillery in this age.

Cannon's in this timeline have been more sophisticated then they have been in TYW. They were still, in some term, huge and cumbersome, in particular, the heavier Field pieces, i.e., 12pdr's and the Siege guns: 24, 32, 42, 60 and 90 pdr.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... undert.jpg

The gun barrels of this time were Masterpieces! Dedicated to their Ruler or certain events like the 12 guns of the Month-Series cast in 1690 of the Saxon Gun Foundry and one gun called Majus(May).

http://www.pictokon.net/bilder/Wandern/ ... rge-35.jpg

Larger countries like France produced a very impressive number of guns and still did them in an artfull style

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... nnerre.jpg

The construction of the barrels are always the same in all the warefaring countries of europe: The Gun barrel should be at least 2/3rds of the length of the carrige it was mounted on(or vice versa). The thickness of the gun barrel should be at least the 2 diameters of the cannon ball at the bore h-o-l-e so if you have a 12pdr ball the barrel must have the thickness like 3 balls over each other. The size of a 24-pdr shot would have been approx. of a adult mens head in size with 24pounds or 12kg of weight in cast iron.

More of it later.

Günter
Last edited by Friedrich August I. on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by Der Alte Fritz » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:03 pm

I'd encourage everyone to take a look at the artillery schematic diagrams that Christian Rogge has been working on. While his focus is on the mid 18th Century, he often starts with earlier cannon from the WSS period.


http://crogges7ywarmies.blogspot.com/
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Friedrich August I.
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by Friedrich August I. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:14 pm

Der Alte Fritz wrote:I'd encourage everyone to take a look at the artillery schematic diagrams that Christian Rogge has been working on. While his focus is on the mid 18th Century, he often starts with earlier cannon from the WSS period.


http://crogges7ywarmies.blogspot.com/
Fritz, I know this website, as I learned of it from
http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Main_Page

I love the illustrations of the guns. I plan to link some here when I get into the depth of the designs.
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"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by barr7430 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:04 am

I have some nice photos of Austrian Cannon circa 1680 captured by the Turks. I took them at the army museum in Istanbul if anybody is interested.

Cheers

B
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:37 am

barr7430 wrote:I have some nice photos of Austrian Cannon circa 1680 captured by the Turks. I took them at the army museum in Istanbul if anybody is interested.

Cheers

B
Barry,

That is a rhetorical question, yes? :D :wink: Yes, I would be interested to see the pictures.

Thanks
G.
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by maciek » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:53 am

Great thread, Günter. Thanks !
An info about artillery limbers and teams would be also usefull (I know they were hired civillians). I saw many contraditiong informations about how many horses were used to man artillery pieces and how they were arranged in team.
Maciek

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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:20 am

maciek wrote:Great thread, Günter. Thanks !
An info about artillery limbers and teams would be also usefull (I know they were hired civillians). I saw many contraditiong informations about how many horses were used to man artillery pieces and how they were arranged in team.
Maciek,

I have a book about the TYW that contains drawings of the Horse teams. As the Guns of the the TYW and the GNW were similar in size and weight it would give a good lead. The book also contains Artillery positions, field fortifications and the position of the crew at the guns.

To provide information like that I startet this thread in the first place :D

Cheers,
Günter
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"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by maciek » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:56 pm

I have a book about the TYW that contains drawings of the Horse teams. As the Guns of the the TYW and the GNW were similar in size and weight it would give a good lead. The book also contains Artillery positions, field fortifications and the position of the crew at the guns.
Isn't it entitled "Ars Bella Gerendi" ?
Maciek

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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:09 pm

Yes, that seems to be the title in the origin. I have it only under the in Austria sold Title: "Tracht, Wehr und Waffen im 30-jährigen Krieg"
http://www.zvab.com/displayBookDetails. ... 961759&b=1
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by maciek » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:19 pm

I know this book 8)
Very nice, indeed.

But I need more images like this:
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estampe gun 2.jpg
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by maciek » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:13 pm

Günter, please don't think I'm trying to hijack your thread, but maybe some pictures of artillery horse teams, that I found in Gallica would be usefull.
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gun 4.jpg
A barrel of heavy gun in transport.
gun 4.jpg (45.13 KiB) Viewed 14522 times
gun 3.jpg
Note the unusual arrangement: one file of horses pulling a gun !
gun 3.jpg (160.24 KiB) Viewed 14522 times
gun 2.jpg
Another single file arrangement.
gun 2.jpg (87.86 KiB) Viewed 14522 times
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by Friedrich August I. » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:56 pm

Maciek,

I am happy that you post this pictures. I had hopes to show a clearer view on the Artillery and it's Equipment of this time and eventually spark some ideas within Clibinarium and Barry to help them with their decissions when sculpting Guns, Limbers and Equipment.

Besides, we, as King of Saxony, are happy when our Polish Allies support our course :wink: :D

Cheers,
Günter
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by maciek » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:11 pm

Günter, thanks for word of encouragment.
Below an extract from battle of Ter engraving, showing a variety of army wagons nad artillery teams.
Besides, we, as King of Saxony, are happy when our Polish Allies support our course
Bear in mind, that I didn't forget that this (Great Northern) war is King's private affair.
:D
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Re: Some words to Cannons of the 17th-18th Century

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:44 am

To Barry and Clibinarium,

One small sidetrack...
The gunner with the fuse on a stick...do you think it may be possible to give him a staff which was more likely to be used in this time firing those huge guns?
Picture:
img6675to2.jpg
img6675to2.jpg (90.9 KiB) Viewed 14394 times
I think allways about firing the 'Daddy' when the gun runs/jumps backwards and rolls over the poor guy who just ignited the powder.
Here are two pictures of gunners between 1680 and 1729(Saxon Source)
Büchsenmeister 1680.jpg
Büchsenmeister 1680.jpg (46.25 KiB) Viewed 14394 times
Kanonier 1717-1729.jpg
Kanonier 1717-1729.jpg (54.84 KiB) Viewed 14394 times
That may be used for future Artillery figures for the GNW Range..*hint*

And here are some pictures of gun carriges of these days.

http://images.fotocommunity.de/bilder/m ... 28bcc3.jpg
Thats a nice one because of the tourist to the right who gives a hight comparing view of this 18-pdr
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ein_61.JPG

http://www.pictokon.net/bilder/Wandern/ ... rge-35.jpg
You will note the different barrels of this five 24 pdrs. You can say the plainer the barrel the later it has been cast. Barrels are dating from 1680 to 1810 :!: (that's the rearmost).

And here are some drawings of french guns between 1678 and 1732
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1235574&t=w

http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/images/c/c ... _M1732.jpg

http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/images/c/c ... _M1732.jpg

The last one shows how the barrels of the smaller french guns have looked liked

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... annons.jpg
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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