Republic to Empire Information

All matters to do with gaming, painting and uniform information
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kiwipeterh
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Post by kiwipeterh » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:08 am

Thanks for the update Barry & Clarence.

I wish you both well with this enterprise ... for the very finest of self serving reasons! :roll:

Salute
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Post by Me paints good » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:41 am

SO let me get this straight...if I rebase my Nappy figs to BLB standards, ie; 18 a pop for a battalion on the same sized bases, will I be good to go as soon as the rules are published? Or will the scheme be more like that in the gallery with battalions of 30+ figs? I know you said basing style was irrelevant, but how big are the units you guys have generally been playing with?

Thanks
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Post by quindia » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:27 pm

The rules are designed for STANDS of 6 or 8 figures, i.e. shooting revolves around groups of 6 infantry figures firing (stands of 8 simply gain a bonus to their die rolls). The game is designed to represent units of different sizes so you may literally field infantry units of 18, 24, 30, 32, 36, 40, etc.

The default scale is 1:20. If you are building a force based around a particular battle, simply divide the unit strength by 20 and then round the number of figures to the closest multiple of 6 or 8. If you are building "generic" units simp;y choose any size that looks good to you. Larger units have more staying power, but if both sides use the same conventions, the difference will be relative.

My own armies consist of different size infantry units. For instance, my British Light Division is made of two British Light Infantry battalions of 30 figures, two Portuguese Cazadore battalions of 24 figures, and a British Rifle unit of 24 figures which represents only 8 companies (at the Coa, only part of one Rifle battalion was present and was divided into two units of four companies).

In contrast, my French infantry units have been designed so I can field battalions of 18, 24, 30, or 36 figures, depending on the scenario, etc. Again, at the Coa the battalions engaged were understrength and are represented very well by 18 figure units.

Hope that helps!
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Post by Me paints good » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:30 pm

Thank you, last Question...I promise :lol:

So are the Rifles moutned the same as everybody else? Or will their be provision for skirmishers
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Post by barr7430 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:52 pm

Skirmishers are dealt with in two differetn ways:

ordinary detached companies from line or light battalions have NO offensive capability but do have a significant negative effect on shooting at their parent units. British riflemen, some prussian and austrian Jaeger have offensive capability. Basing is irrelevant.. singles, doubles ,triples doesn't matter those types shoot in multiples of 2 ie 1 x D6 per two figs killing on 5 or 6 at normal range, 1 x D6 per 4 figs killing at 5,6 at long range etc etc
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Post by Duke of Plaza-Toro » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:55 am

So gentlemen – on a related topic, how would you recommend I base figures so that ‘elite’ companies can be shown attached / detached?

Specifically – I want to depict my pre-1802 French battalions for RtoE so that I can show them with grenadier companies sometimes attached to their fusiliers or sometimes detached to form composite grenadier battalions.

My original plan was to go for 24 figure units with six bases of four figures, which would include a single four figure grenadier base, to be detached or attached as the scenario demanded. Now I accept from what you said previously that RtoE will accommodate such basing, but it seems to me from Clarence’s post that bases of six or eight figures will none-the-less be more in keeping with the RtoE modus operandi and make for easier ‘at a glance – number of die’ calculations?

So – what to do? I could base my fusiliers on three bases of six figures and have an additional base of 6 grenadiers, but aesthetically that will make for far too high a proportion of grenadiers in my battalions. Or will it be possible under RtoE to mix eight and six figure stands in a the same battalion? In which case I could push the boat out and go for 30 figure battalions with 3 stands of eight fusiliers (or maybe four stands of six) and one stand of six grenadiers. (Not sure I want to do the extra painting though – rather set my heart on 24 figure battalions! I’m open to persuasion though…)

You see my dilemma? I’m no doubt obsessing about this waaaay too much. As it is, if I was being strictly accurate only 2-3 figures in a 24 figure French battalion should be grenadiers for this period anyway, but getting the visual aesthetics in tune with a basing system that will be practical under the rules – and still allow me to recreate French practice for the Revolutionary period - is bothering me somewhat.

Any advice gratefully received (or just tell me to get a life)
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Post by quindia » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:51 am

Welcome to the forum, Your Grace!

I also struggled with the same thing. I have a 4x6' table at my home and while I love the look of the 36-man French battalions, 24-man units are more practical for my table. I love the look of multi-figure stands and the speed of play is certainly enhanced by them, but I wanted to have flexibility in my collection and be able to maintain the French company structure visually (i.e. keep the pom poms in roughly the right ratio).

I resorted to the Charles Grant method of basing my figures singly. I currently have four 36-man battalions finished. With the extra work of painting a few additional eagle bearers, I can field these models as five battalions of 30, six battalions of 24, or eight battalions of 18 (and any other combination for any rule set I choose to use).

Having said that, even if you build 24-man units, you may detach the grenadiers for some scenarios. A 20-man unit still counts as a 24-man unit, but is slightly more fragile (as should be the case if the packed their grenadiers off) as it only take two casualties to reduce their effectiveness to an 18-man battalion. The combat rules in R2E use groups of six, but fractional groups are rounded up.

Hope that helps! :D
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Post by Duke of Plaza-Toro » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:11 pm

And thank you for the most helpful response good sir!

That’s excellent. I too am a bit ‘wargames table challenged’ (although mine will stretch to 7 x 5 feet) and like you I thought 24 figure units would be a good base line to work with considering the available room for manoeuvrer. Your last paragraph seems to have the answer, and thanks for the insider information on the rules concerning the rounding up. That would work well, and as you say nicely reflect the weakened state of the fusilier battalions with their grenadiers detached (the rounding is the same in Beneath the Lily Banners isn’t it? I should have realised).

The idea of individually basing IS tempting though. I’m mainly (although not exclusively) a solo gamer so the time factor involved in moving lots of individual figures around the table rather than the speed of shifting a few multi figure bases isn’t much of an issue for me. I can see other advantages as well – for example – not having to paint all my light infantry units twice on both close and skirmish order bases. Hmmmm – you’ve got me thinking now. Can I ask another question? What do you mount your individual figures on? Square or round bases?

(errrr - should I look in the gallery? :oops: )
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Post by quindia » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:55 pm

You can check out my website to see my British Light Division. The French are still being based so even though I've finished painting the models, they are not up on the site yet. There are some WIP photos in the "What Are You Working On" section of this forum.

I base all of my figures on Litko wooden bases, 20mm square for infantry and 25x50mm for cavalry.

I actually don't get the time to play very often, so when I do set aside a Saturday, I make sure absolutely nothing else is planned, so the time factor of moving the units doesn't bother me either. Plus, I can also use the same collection for Sharpe-style skirmish games!
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Post by barr7430 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:22 pm

Guys,

the Brigade level Napoleonic rules I have just written for Victrix Miniatures (due out with their figures this year) cater for units with figures based individually :D
You could go that way you know!... they will definitely hit the shops before Republic to Empire.. now where I Mr Harrison?... we need to start speaking about that project :wink:
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Post by quindia » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:29 pm

I have already converted the latest R2E doc into the text file I use for layouts... :wink:
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Post by Churchill » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:23 pm

Hi Barry & Clarence,

I'm looking forward to the R2E rules being published and released on sale.
I don't know if your aware, but since 1997 I've been building my 15mm Waterloo Project.I decided on a 1 : 50 for cost purposes and this gave me 12 figure battalions = 600 real men, 4 figure cavalry regiments = 200 real men and 1 artillery gun and 4 crew = 1 battery.Where the cavalry regiments are stronger than 200 I've added a second base of 4 figures.
All bases for infantry and cavalry are two and a quarter inches frontage by one and a quarter inches in depth, artillery are two and a quarter inches square.
The French are finished and total over 1,300 figures, the Prussians that took part are being painted now and most of the British have been purchased off e-bay and only need rebasing.
Will the R2E rules work with these scales???

Many thanx...........Ray.
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Post by quindia » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:26 am

I don't know that 12-man units would be very effective in game terms. However, if you field the units as infantry regiments of 2-4 battalions (24 to 48 figures) and cavalry brigades or divisions (12-24 figures), the rules should work fine! The base sizes won't matter as long as both armies are based using the same convention.
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Post by Duke of Plaza-Toro » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:44 pm

Thanks for your help and suggestions B and C.

After much musing I’ve decided to organise my Revolutionary period French infantry battalions on six bases of four figures each, with an extra seventh base of four grenadiers – but these were usually detached off in their own composite battalions. (And I can extend the ‘life’ of some of these units up to 1806-07 battles by simply replacing one of the four man fusilier bases with a voltigeur base and swapping the revolutionary command base for one brandishing an Imperial lozenge Eagle standard).

This arrangement seems to ‘tick most of the boxes’ for such aesthetic niceties as retaining some neat symmetry to my proposed 3 x 2 base attack columns, and my squares (i.e. I'll have an even number of bases: the odd grenadier base can just tuck on the back of the column if they’re still hanging around – or lead the assault!) - while at the same time allowing me to plug-in or disconnect grenadier and voltigeur bases of the same four figure configuration without disrupting the basic symmetry too much. The relatively high number of bases with small groups of figures on them should also allow me to represent the grandes bandes skirmish ‘crowds’ of the period by breaking up the whole battalion into a loose mob of bases – maybe with a few individually based firers and loaders scattered around for visual effect. The smaller four figure bases will also fit into building models better, and so on… Well… that’s the plan so far…

Meanwhile, I do have a quick RtoE related question on base sizes. For 28mm figures, 15mm per figure seems a good standard frontage for close order infantry, but what base depth are you likely to recommend for RtoE? Will it be 50mm again as in BLB? I only ask because 50mm seems quite deep to me for French Rev. / Napoleonics, and I was wondering if the 50mm had been chosen as a reflection of the deeper line formations of the late 17th / early 18th centuries – or perhaps it was chosen just to provide the beautifully painted figures with a degree of better protection.

Yes – I know base sizes aren’t critical, and I can do my own thing if I want to – but none-the-less I’m interested to know if there was any particular reasoning behind the 50mm depth, and whether you’re likely to continue with that recommendation in Republic to Empire?

Many thanks - DPT
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Post by barr7430 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:09 pm

DPT,

the reason for the choice of depth is far more prosaic than historical!

I like to protect my figures from damage, particularly to bayonets. I also like to add some feature groundwork in front of the units. Hence the 50mm depth! So I would always recommend 15mm frontage for close order 28mm figures but base depth is at the discretion of the player. Units caught in flanks deserve everything they get so I am not bothered about the gamey aspects of reduced depth flanks(what is 10-20mm between friends?). You'll see that my current Napoleonic basing method(as yet unphotographed by me but already utilised by David Imrie in his gallery0 is to use 60 x 60 mm bases.
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