HELP PLEASE - WURTEMBURGERS!!!

Post by **barr7430** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:13 pm

Looking for some help pls regarding Wurtemburg Infantry Regt Nr2.

Facing colour pre 1809 listed as blue in Philip Haythornthwaite's Napoleonic Source book but Orange? post that date. The same author shows this same regiment in Russia in 1812 with Blue facings in his book Napoleon's campaign's in Russia. The recent publication from France Borodino/Moskova in the Histoire series shows the same regiment with red facings. Flag from Fighting 15s for same regiment is red.

Confused and looking for an expert(particularly to explain Haythornthwaite's self contradiction)

thanks

B

Post by **barr7430** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:24 pm

FOLLOWING A REPLY FROM THE NAPOLEONIC FORUM, THE QUESTION WIDENS!!!John and Anthony,

I thank you very much for such prompt and detailed replies. This is the first time I have used the forum and am very impressed by the content, speed and detailed response of its users.

I'd just like to delve a little deeper please if that is not an imposition.
Haythornthwaite is held as a bit of an authority and I was interested in your views as to why such a glaring inaccuracy would have been made. All evidence appears to point toward the facing colour being as stated by John 'Poppy Red'. However in EACH of his references to the regiment which I have found he has wrongly stated the facing colour in 1812...
Ref: The Napoleonic Source Book. 1990 Cassell. page 319,Para 2/Eight regiments existed in 1811....facings... 2nd Orange.

Ref:Uniforms of 1812;Haythornthwaite,Blandford 1976; Plate 33a Private 2nd Infantry Regt campaign dress.. facings are sky blue.

Interestingly in the first publication noted above he lists the regiments at the beginning of the second paragraph and the second mentioned is Obernitz (light blue facings). By convention he had probably listed them in order of numerical ascendency(he continues with that convention later in the paragraph).This led me to deduce that the error may have been one of timing.. ie the 2nd DID have sky blue facings but before 1811 and that some of the men continued to wear the older uniform into Russia.

The reason for my pedantic approach to the question is that I have already painted a 45 strong battalion with light blue facings which I understood to be the proper colours for the 2nd(present at Borodino and part of the attack on the Bagration Fleches). I may now have to rename them at least! - the 5th(faced light blue) were not with the Grande Armee!

Anyway, thanks and look forward to any fUrther views

B

sharnydubs · Post by **sharnydubs** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:16 am

Barry, to add to the confusion

Arms and Uniforms of the Napoleonic Wars,Part 2, Lilian and Fred Funcken page 68 shows Regiment No 2 with sky blue piped with white collar, cuffs and turnbacks pre 1812 and post 1812 sky blue piped with white collar, cuffs and shoulder straps and sky bue turnbacks.

Napoleonic Army Handbook, French Army and her Allies, Michael Oliver and Richard Partridge page 329 lists orange facings (collar,cuffs,lapels and turnbacks) for Regient No 2 Herzog Wilhelm with only the lapels changing to dark blue from 1812. They show the 5th regiment (Prinz Friedrich) as having light blue facings but they don't appear to have battle honours after 1809.

Armies of 1812, Digby Smith, page 87, supports the orange facings, white piping argument for regiment No 2 Herzog Wilhelm. he doesn't even list the 5th.

I have Faber du Faur's illustrated memoirs With Napoleon in Russia. he has a number of Wurtemberger references but unfortunately I can't tell which regiments.

The Hourtelle book on the Moskova/Borodino which you have, I have found to be pretty reliable assuming you work on the basis that their colour illustration or red is really the orange referred to in the books !

Peter

sharnydubs · Post by **sharnydubs** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:16 am

http://georgianworld.tripod.com/uniforms/#French%20Army

This site has a Wurtemberg infantry plate showing red/orange facings. The French /Allies plates were made by Veyland, Martinet around 1812.

I also suggest you check out Alan pendlebury's Napoleonic flag site at
http://www.callnetuk.com/home/alanpendl ... urtt_5.htm which shows the IR Nr2 Herzog Wilhelm flag as being red.

chow

Peter