French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

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18th Century Guy
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French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by 18th Century Guy » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:30 pm

I'm curious, is there a French royal flag/standard similar to the English one? Does anyone know and have an image? Thank you.
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by Russian James » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:25 pm

Plain white flag? And no, I'm not being facetious...

I think at one time it was a white field covered with small flyer-de-lis, at others a plain white field...


...or is my old memory failing me?
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by Motorway » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:53 pm

This is a version reported to be captured at Seneffe:

http://rampjaar.blogspot.nl/2011/11/fra ... rench.html
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by Churchill » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by j1mwallace » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:52 pm

What about the oriflamme?
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by 18th Century Guy » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:59 pm

Although hard to see it looks like the flag on the tapestry/painting has a cross on it and I wouldn't think the Royal standard would have that. It looks like a Colonel's flag that would have fleurs-de-lys on it. Maybe a Swiss regiment?
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by 18th Century Guy » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:10 pm

One thing I have found on the Hall CD for French Cavalry. Under the Gendarmerie 5th Company Gendarmes de la Reine it describes the 'arms' of France as been a blue oval with 3 gold fleur-de-lys. So maybe this on a white field?
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by Arthur » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:44 am

Russian James wrote:Plain white flag? And no, I'm not being facetious...
Not only are you not being facetious, but you're quite on the money. To make it short and pithy, there was no such thing as a French national flag during the Ancien Régime. No such flag was flown on the front of public buildings or carried by the king's retinue or household on those occasions when he took the field with the army.

However, white became associated with French royalty over time as it evoked purity. White crosses had been in use since the middle ages, but the practice became official in the late C16th with Henry IV, who adopted the white of the Huguenot faction. Henry's successors were not too thrilled with this protestant connotation, notably Louis XIII who placed the kingdom of France under the protection of the Virgin Mary and claimed white was her colour.

So white flags implicitly came to mark the presence of royal authority wherever they were flown - which is why the colonel's standard was white in both infantry and cavalry units as white suggested that the colonel proprietor derived his authority from the king himself. White sashes became the distinctive mark of French troops and white cockades began to appear during the reign of Louis XIII. After the battle of Fleurus in 1690, all French military flags (infantry colours and cavalry standards alike) received a white scarf which had to be affixed to the shaft just below the spearhead.

The various white flags shown above are all colonel's colours or cavalry standards.

Motorway : your Seneffe flag looks like a cavalry standard to me. The Nihil Obstabit Eunti motto ('None shall oppose him as he goes') rules it out as a royal flag since Louis XIV's motto was Nec pluribus impar. I'd have to hit the books to see if Nihil Obstabit Eunti fits in with known descriptions of 1670's French flags, but I can't think of anything right now off the top of my head and it doesn't seem to tally with the recorded Maison du Roi or Gendarmerie standards, so it may well have been taken from a gentleman's regiment - i.e a regular line cavalry unit.

18th century guy : the white colonel's colour with golden fleur-de-lys would not necessarily be Swiss. Quite a few royal French regiments had them as well. The only distinguishing feature for white Swiss colours would have been stitched white wavy piles, which can't be seen in the picture. The small square flag on the ground is definitely a cavalry standard, though.

The gold fleurs-de-lys on an azure field below are the traditional arms of France, dating back to the 13th century : this heraldic device was still widely used during the ancien régime, but it was the white flag which really came to symbolise both the royal authority and the identity of the kingdom of France. White flags with gold lilies were supposed to be flown in the presence of members of the royal family, and flags with a pure white background when the king himself was there, though once again these were not official national flags but rather symbols of royal power.

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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by Motorway » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:27 am

Arthur, I don't think myself the White Colour was an army flag, but it was important enough to mentioned as such in two pamhplets and a mention in Histoire des princes d'Orange de la maison de Nassau by Foy de Neuville, who decribes it and also mentions it was a white colour with gold embroidement.

The motto stands for the power of the sun, of course referencing to Le Roi Soleil himself. (I found an interesting reference in Mannings book on the Jesuits and the Emblem tradition, but the google book search only delivers a snippet. Meh....)
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by 18th Century Guy » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:45 pm

Gentlemen,

This has been an awesome discussion. Thanks to everyone who contributed. This is the reason I keep coming back here for information.
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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by yar68 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:15 pm

Here's a pic of my pal Richard's flag he made for his leader stand, he went with the medieval type flag.

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Re: French Royal Flag/Standard - is there such a thing?

Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:56 am

A very intersesting discussion indeed!

There seems to be an unofficial "National" Color of France in form of the Royal Standard of the Kingdom of France:
http://www.flagsonline.it/asp/flag.asp/ ... rance.html
Also you my find the Royal Standard in Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Royal ... France.svg
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