Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
Post Reply
BaronVonWreckedoften
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:21 pm

Interested in any sources for the "Arab" (Moorish/Ottoman) forces that besieged Tangiers during the reign of Charles II. I have more than enough sources for the British (including details of an attached Spanish horse regiment from Chema), but am finding it almost impossible to locate anything for the enemy. In brief, I am looking for details of clothing, weapons, organisation, tactics, and attached artillery and engineers (I believe these last two elements were Turkish). I am aware of the book mentioned in the thread by Adam Hayes, and that a recent(ish) Wargames Illustrated or Miniature Wargames (#350?) may contain useful material?

I should add that I am seeking these for a 15mm army for Field of Glory Renaissance rules, so if you would slant any answers towards that target, I would be grateful. However, I suspect that the data would be equally valuable for 28mm BLB and Donnybrook forces.

It's been a while since I've posted on here, so please excuse me if I've missed a similar post on this subject! :roll:
No plan survives the first contact with the dice.
Buzz0000
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:54 am

Re: Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by Buzz0000 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:48 pm

I didn't see a reply to this. The Tangiers "period" has always looked like material for a mini campaign, and I was intrigued when coming across a FOG-R listing for the forces there. It is on my list of future projects (along with Sedgemoor, the Anglo-Dutch War in Caribbean etc)- I would be interested in what else you discover. I have not yet delved deeply into this, but as I come across snippets I am saving them away for later. I have scans of chapter 3 (on Tangiers) from Clifford Walton's "History of the British standing army. A.D. 1660 to 1700" if those may be of interest?
David
BaronVonWreckedoften
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Re: Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:07 pm

Hi Buzz,

Sorry for the delay in replying, but I've been away on holiday and then a week wargaming with the Perrys including their Partizan game.

No, not a single reply so far. I would indeed be interested in Walton extract - perhaps you could PM me on here and we can swap email addresses or similar.

Thanks.
No plan survives the first contact with the dice.
Buzz0000
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:54 am

Re: Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by Buzz0000 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:43 pm

Have done, happy to share with anyone else who is interested
User avatar
barr7430
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5905
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:22 pm
Location: EK,Scotland
Contact:

Re: Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by barr7430 » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:29 am

I have some info. Forces were Ottoman vassals. Moulay Ismail was the main leader of note during the Engllish period. Forces comprised regular and irregular forces including a unit called the Black Guard which I believe were all reruited from sub Saharan Africa. The forces would have included Berbers and possible some desert peoples. Infantry, cavalry and artillery and also significant naval forces. Clothing would be a mix of Ottoman styles and North African/Tribal dress.

There are various sources I have picked up over the years but I am not in a position to put my fingers on them right now. Hope this is a starter for 10.
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

Henry Ford
Buzz0000
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:54 am

Re: Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by Buzz0000 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:31 am

Hi Barry, thanks for this.

How would these troops best be represented figure/model wise? Under BLB 2nd Ed. I guess horse as Non European Tribal (p.9) and foot as Tribal Infantry (p.10) and formations (p.25), manoeuvre (p.27) etc

In terms of "dress"; are you aware of any appropriate model ranges (in 15mm) that would represent these forces most appropriately?

TIA

David
User avatar
yar68
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:17 am
Location: Gravesend, Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by yar68 » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:25 pm

I would suggest my old favourites Essex miniatures for the majority of the troops, see link below, but you will need some musket armed men, here's another link from Essex. There's not a lot of info out there to be honest, I had a lot of trouble myself when sourcing info on figures for my Tangier Donnybrook figures. A lot of it was guess work, while keeping my fingers crossed at all times. I used a lot of Gripping Beasts Moors and generic Arab types?

https://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/colle ... rab-empire

https://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/colle ... toman-turk
Ray

Yay...I say yay..............Yay!

http://onelover-ray.blogspot.com/
Buzz0000
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:54 am

Re: Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by Buzz0000 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:11 pm

Hi Ray,

Thanks, but IMHO the Turks don't look enough like Moor-ish arabs (although some were reported to wear the fez caps etc) and the Arabs don't have later weapons (it was reported that they carried a mix of spears/lances or muskets)

Any other thoughts?

thanks
David
Buzz0000
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:54 am

Re: Opponents for British Tangiers Garrison 1660-1684

Post by Buzz0000 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:00 pm

As I am trying to "recruit" the forces of Moulay Ismail in 15mm and against the FOG-R Army lists for Arab States/Desert Arabs. This has thrown up some conundrums:-

The availability of figures that might represent these forces is somewhat limited. I also want to be able to potentially play with these as a generic Arab/Moorish army and as I already have an extensive set of Ottoman armies from which I may poach some figures e.g. Azap bow armed skirmishers, and maybe the artillery crews too (as I haven't found anything early Arab, only later with Fez wearing crews), I was looking for more obviously Northern African, sub-Saharan types.

Accordingly, I am experimenting now with figures from the following ranges:

1/ Essex from their Ancients range for Arab Conquest/Empire e.g. AEA3, AEA4, AEA9 and AEA11- although they have no firearm troops in that range;

2/ Irregular from their Colonial ranges with samples such as FZ116, FZ112, FZ24, FZ25, FZ30, FZ32, FZ37, AB21 which gives me some camelry and troops with firearms as well as some other variants of Dervish, Moslem and Afghan/Pathan

3/MiniFigs/Matchlock from their Moors range (e.g. 144X arquebus) and their Colonial Victoria's Enemies (Two Dragoons) such as VE13, VE41 and VE46 covering various Arab types

4/ Museum Miniatures classic Arab range eg AI03, AI09 and ACO8

5/ Donnington from their Armies of Islam range, for Berber style cavalry MUC20, MUC22 plus various Spearman types, including MUF05 (Murabit/Sudanese Guard) who I hope can double as the Black Guard (although the FOGR lists do not allow any HF/MF superior armoured w/ Spear - so may need a "special scenario" rule to allow them when playing the Tangiers campaign (it is a little odd that the English Reformation list does have a Tangiers scenario)

6/ Forged In Battle ancient Arabs including WE-AC-01 Arab heavy cav; WE-AC-02 light/med cav; WE-AC-06 spearman; WE-AC-07 archers and WE-AC-08 long spearman w/ Armour

7/ Peter Pig has a Dervish colonial range that has some possible figures including 22001/22206 SUDAN Dervish turban foot, 22010/22011 Dervish turban mounted and others.

All are on order (except the Forged in Battle figures that I picked up at the Warfare Show at the weekend). Once they are all here I will see how the "mix and match" of styles / sizes might work.

Barry mentioned that for BLB rules he would base them as "irregulars" (so more of a cross between formed and mob), but FOGR forces one or the other and rates the Spearman as Warriors; the skirmishers are the usual light foot and the mounted are light horse or cavalry. The interesting variation is the use of Camelry either as mounted with Spear; or as a formation representing sharpshooters classified (and based) as dragoons.

What I would also be keen to clarify is whether any of the Arab forces at this time included firearm mounted (not including the "dragoon camelry") as that would be a further interesting variation to have arquebus/carbine (or even pistol) equipped cavalry esp. as the British forces had very little as the FOG-R list limits them; except for the Spanish mercenary horse (with them all being pistol armed).

More anon

David (B)
Post Reply