Osprey's 'Battle of the Boyne'

[Captain of Dragoons]

Below also posted on the Miniature Pages forum

I recently had Osprey's 'Battle of the Boyne' ordered from Chapters Canada and have finished reading it last night. I was surprise by some of the plates in regardes to uniforms and flags.

For the Dutch Blue Guards (Gardes te Voet) they show a that a new colour was issued in 1688 to give them a more "English look". Cross of St Geroge with Order of the Garter in the middle. Also Trophies (canons, drums and flags) in the cantons to signify Willam's inevitable victory. Would the Guards continue with colours like this for the Grand Alliance War? I would guess that after the reign of William as King of England they would of gone back to their old Dutch Colours. On a different topic was the Frisans Guards a different unit all together or part of the Blue Gurads?

As regardes to an earlier thread on the uniforms of the Blue Guards they are displayed in this booklet with yellow/orange cuffs and stockings.

On the Jacobite side Antrim's are shown looking like a French Regiment in the white/grey uniform with red cuffs and stockings. I was surprise to see Zurlauben's in dark blue with red cuffs and white stockings, I would of guess French white/grey. They almost look like the Blue Guards in the WSS.

There is an bio in the booklet on Richard Hamilton. It states that after he was captured and exchanged for Lord Mountjoy he was involed with the Jacobite high command for failed invasion attempts of 1692, 1696 and 1708. Am I confusing this person with a different Richard Hamiton that was also captured but gave William his allegence and died at Steinkrike at the head of an English Divison.

cheers

[barr7430]

Ed,

I don't particularly like the illustration style used for the plates in the Boyne book but they are lifted from another publication and were not done specifically for that book.
As to the Guards colours in Flanders I don't know but maybe Mats Elzinga can tell us
He is an 'authority' on the Friesland Guards who are definitely a seperate unit known as the Gaard van den Stathouder. The Blue Guards are the Gaard te Voet. Mats insists that the were of equal quality be he s from Friesland and sayas he is not Dutch

The Antrim plate could be accurate. The French clothed many regiments in Ireland as part of 'the deal'
Zurlauben were I think Swiss or Alsatian hence the blue coat.

Don't know about Hamilton though

[Rebel]

Apologies of this would seem to most members about dragging up the past, but I hope you will bear with me. Having had the Rules and Forum recommended to me by a friend in the UK, I've just joined the Forum and, as is understandable, I've been flitting through the posts relevant to my main area of interest - The War in Ireland from 1689/91.

As the author of the Osprey Campaign title on the Battle of the Boyne, you can imagine my surprise (putting it mildly) when I go to a thread about the book and read a post from the Forum administrator which reads "I don't particularly like the illustration style used for the plates in the Boyne book but they are lifted from another publication and were not done specifically for that book."

I can't object to Barry's opinion of the plates - although for my money they do an excellent job of showing the reader the uniform details - but what I would do is, and with all due respect, ask him to substantiate his claim that the images he mentions were "lifted".

This is a serious comment and I'm sure that Barry will have no objection in responding to my request as I'm sure he would seek similar clarification if someone were to cast doubts upon his excellent ruleset.

For the record, I've known Robert Hall (who produced the plates) for several years now, and at the time when I was working on "The Boyne" he was working on his magnum opus for the Pike & Shot Society on the Army of Louis XIV (I cannot recommend these books highly enough) and given the paucity of information (especially Jacobite) on uniforms for 1689/91 he suggested that we pool our research notes and he would produce plates for all the known regiments, plates which cold be used in "The Boyne" and any future projects that we undertook, and so with the exception of the plate for Zurlauben's regiment (which appears on p.47) and which appears in the first volume of Robert's series on Louis XIV's army all of the remaining images shown in the Osprey were indeed produced specifically for the book, and indeed a few of the others (ans some hitherto unseen ones) have recently been used in my recent title on the Battle of Aughrim for The History Press.

The simple fact being that whilst Robert maintains copyright, I have his permission to reproduce them a fact which is readily acknowledged in both books.

- Kindest Regards,


Mike.

[parkinspieces]

Well this particular title was enough to get Alec of Front Rank Figurines to get all fired up for expanding his WSS range into the Jacobite Wars in Ireland which he plans to do in (hopefully) the not to distant future

So I'm sure he would also be interested in your other title The Battle of Aughrim, particulary if it shows uniforms of the period.

Stuart

[Rebel]

Hi Stuart,

thanks for this - If Alec is a member and has any queries on units, uniforms etc he can reach me via the Forum, if he's not and he wants to we can always arrange something.

- Mike.

[Rebel]

Hi Iain,

it's good to be here !!

Must dash as am up in a few hours for a flight to Dublin for the official launch.

Touch Base Soon.


Mike.

PS I hadn't even spoke to Robert about the Austrians - Will it be (do you know) a single volume or more ??

[barr7430]

Oh dear
I think my remark has been rather misinterpreted and indeed the printed word can be read in several ways. My use of the the word 'lifted' did not carry any negative implications whatsoever but perhaps Mike, you've inferred something that is simply not there. So firstly let me apologise for my less than clear English.

I used lifted in the context of having been prepared primarily for use with another publication but had an obvious relevant application in your book hence the plates' inclusion.
I remember the exact exchange which was between myself and Stuart Parkin and it was he who informed me that the prints were from the work of Robert Hall(whom I had not at that point heard of) and I assumed(albeit mistakenly as it now appears) by the way Stuart explained it that these illustrations were not specifically commissioned for the Osprey title the Battle of the Boyne. Hence 'lifted'

There was no intent to imply you did not have the permission of the illustrator. Although I don't particularly like the style of the prints that is of no consequence but everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'll make no further comment on that as I don't need to justify my opinions or preferences, nor does anyone else.

I DO like the 'action' plates but again that is irrelevant. I did buy the book and enjoyed reading it and have referred to it reasonably frequently since then. I would like to compliment you on that Mike.

With regard to comments on BLB, I have long since decided not be drawn one way or the other on criticisms mainly for the reasons cited above. If someone has paid the money and doesn't like the product then I figure they are entitled to express that dissatisfaction as they've paid for it!

Thank you anyway for the kind words as they are always nice to hear Mike

In general I do not censor on this forum unless the content is particularly offensive, ranting or lacking in the normal social graces. All views and opinions are welcome even those which are not synergetic with my own I am quite happy to make it a meeting place for everyone interested in wargaming and particularly in the periods I am myself interested in. I am delighted to have authors like you Mike, Angus Konstam, Iain, Dan Schorr and others contributing here as it adds credibility as well as value. I consider it a mark of the forum's quality that people contributing to the hobby on your level are happy to join with the rest of the hobby's enthusiasts to create a lively, good natured, informative and value adding source to dip into.

So please, I urge you, keep posting. I'll think more carefully about how I type spontaneous thoughts (which many forum posts are) and things will tick along nicely I think.


regards

Barry

[Captain of Dragoons]

It’s good to see so many distinguished gentlemen on Fighting Talk that are authors of some very good books and booklets on the market.

So gents, any chance of somebody doing a book on the battles of the War of the Grand Alliance like Neerwinden 1693. For such a show piece battle for the period there is not much available to the reader/gamer.

Cheers
Edward