DUTCH BLUE GUARDS

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
curassier
Command Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:09 am

DUTCH BLUE GUARDS

Post by curassier » Mon May 26, 2008 8:13 pm

I am seeking a clearer idea of the uniform and colours of the Dutch Blue Guards for the Ramillies era eg type of grenadier cap, basic uniform details and standards.

I would also welcome a brief explanation of the difference between various Dutch Guards units. Are the blue guards the same as the Gardes de Voet?
If anyone has a uniform plate they can refer me to that would be even better.
Thanks.
Curassier
Jonathan
Captain of Dragoons
Major General
Major General
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:18 am
Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada

Post by Captain of Dragoons » Tue May 27, 2008 12:43 am

Hello curassier

The Dutch Blue Guards are the Gardes de Voet. Three battalions for the War of the Grand Alliance and War of Spanish Succession.

Barry has his battalions painted blue with orange facings (very nice). For the War of Spanish Succession some sources have them with blue with red facings.

They are the premier Grand Alliance Infantry.

cheers
Edward
Last edited by Captain of Dragoons on Tue May 27, 2008 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Captain of Dragoons
Me paints good
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:24 am

Re: DUTCH BLUE GUARDS

Post by Me paints good » Tue May 27, 2008 2:55 am

curassier wrote:I am seeking a clearer idea of the uniform and colours of the Dutch Blue Guards for the Ramillies era eg type of grenadier cap, basic uniform details and standards.

I would also welcome a brief explanation of the difference between various Dutch Guards units. Are the blue guards the same as the Gardes de Voet?
If anyone has a uniform plate they can refer me to that would be even better.
Thanks.
Curassier
Osprey's "Marlborough's Army" has a plate. Very plain uniform w/dark blue with orange facings, breeches, stockings & waistcoats and a red scarf around the neck, no hat lace. Doesn't have any officers, but I imagine they had silver lace.
By the time of Fontenoy, they were definately in red facings, but I'd say Orange is safer for Ramilles, better looking too.
Captain of Dragoons
Major General
Major General
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:18 am
Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada

Post by Captain of Dragoons » Tue May 27, 2008 11:58 am

IIRC the Osprey 'Boyne' book has an plate of the Blue Guards 'English style' standard.

cheers
Edward
Captain of Dragoons
Captain of Dragoons
Major General
Major General
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:18 am
Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada

Post by Captain of Dragoons » Tue May 27, 2008 1:32 pm

As for other Dutch Guard Units you have;

Gardes te Paard which is the guard cavalry regiment.

Garde Dragonder, or Eppinger's. This regiment also had mounted grenadiers in each troop. The practice was to brigade these grenadiers together as at the Boyne.

cheers
Edward
Captain of Dragoons
User avatar
barr7430
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5866
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:22 pm
Location: EK,Scotland
Contact:

Post by barr7430 » Tue May 27, 2008 7:15 pm

Guys,

I think you can pretty much discount the English style standard in the Boyne book. Have a look at what I've done to the Reiver Gard te Voet.
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

Henry Ford
Captain of Dragoons
Major General
Major General
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:18 am
Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada

Post by Captain of Dragoons » Tue May 27, 2008 11:54 pm

I think you can pretty much discount the English style standard in the Boyne book. Have a look at what I've done to the Reiver Gard te Voet.
The flags are great Barry. Really adds colour and character to the battalions. Can you give us an description of what symbols you used.

cheers
Ed
Captain of Dragoons
Me paints good
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:24 am

Post by Me paints good » Wed May 28, 2008 4:08 am

Captain of Dragoons wrote:
I think you can pretty much discount the English style standard in the Boyne book. Have a look at what I've done to the Reiver Gard te Voet.
The flags are great Barry. Really adds colour and character to the battalions. Can you give us an description of what symbols you used.

cheers
Ed
Looks like the order of the garter with white saltires per battalion
User avatar
barr7430
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5866
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:22 pm
Location: EK,Scotland
Contact:

Post by barr7430 » Wed May 28, 2008 3:33 pm

Me Paints Good.. correct on the order of the Garter. In the second set of flags the order of the garter enclosed within the Garter Star.
The White 'saltire shape is in fact sometomes described in Eurpoean flags as a 'flame' or in English flags as 'Pile Wavy'.

The Sapherson interpretation has been discredited(possibly a harsh word.. more like revised) by subbsequent interpretations.
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

Henry Ford
curassier
Command Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:09 am

Post by curassier » Wed May 28, 2008 9:56 pm

Many thanks for all the expert advice. Great game Barry and nice to chat again.
Curassier.
Jonathan
parkinspieces
Major
Major
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 7:36 pm
Location: Derby

Post by parkinspieces » Wed May 28, 2008 9:57 pm

Yes Barry, I like the flags to :lol: I really like the one being carried across the Boyne, adds that bit xtra to the unit wading across, don't yer think :twisted: :wink:
Eugenio von Savoy
Sergeant Major of the Army
Sergeant Major of the Army
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:19 pm
Location: Nottingham, England
Contact:

Post by Eugenio von Savoy » Thu May 29, 2008 12:31 am

Barry,

Saw the game at Newark on Sunday and very good indeed.

As mentioned to you on the day the "Like a Stone Wall" Wargames Group is currently working on the Boyne as a sub project!! We are unable to fit it into our tour of shows this year as it really requires a two day event to display it and those remaining slots (eg the Worlds) are taken with our other games.

We started out with just the Oldbridge action but group enthusiasm now dictates that the 45 or so units painted to date require the full action (along with the flank march and counterattack) on our usual LASW 36+ foot tables. :shock: Anyone got any ideas where to show it off this year or it will be 2009 before it gets an airing!

From your pics of Sunday I see that the Huguenot units have stripes colours along with their white French colours, is there a reference for this please?
Regards
Tim
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."
Sir Winston Churchill,
User avatar
obriendavid
General of the Army
General of the Army
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post by obriendavid » Thu May 29, 2008 6:51 am

parkinspieces wrote:Yes Barry, I like the flags to :lol: I really like the one being carried across the Boyne, adds that bit xtra to the unit wading across, don't yer think :twisted: :wink:
I'm not sure Stuart, do you think the Boyne was really that depth at that time? :twisted:

Cheers
Dave
Eugenio von Savoy
Sergeant Major of the Army
Sergeant Major of the Army
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:19 pm
Location: Nottingham, England
Contact:

Post by Eugenio von Savoy » Thu May 29, 2008 10:47 am

Dave et al,

The situation with the Dutch Guards crossng the tidal Boyne is recorded thus by two eyewitnesses:

Story recalled “the Dutch beat a march till the got to the rivers side, and then the drums ceasing, in they went, some eight or ten abreast…”

Story, George Warter. A true and impartial history of the most material occurances in the kingdom of Ireland during the last two years. London. 1691

The Danish Ambassador wrote to his King, Christian V, the next day “The Regiment of the Dutch guards was the first to cross, the men being above their waists in water…”

2 Fouleresse, Jean Payen de la, Danish Ambassador. Letter dated Duleek, July 2 1690

The situation for later crossings was more extreme as the result of nearly 2000 Bluecoats effectively daming the watercourse materialised. The French regiments in relative close proximity had to negotiate the regular depth of water plus that released after the Guards had all passed through and released the backlog of water. An interesting point when you consider their subsequent performance against the Jackobite horse attacks which is frequently attributed to a lack of pikes.

One wonders did they have sufficient dry powder to produce the required degree of firepower to see off the horse?
Regards
Tim
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."
Sir Winston Churchill,
User avatar
obriendavid
General of the Army
General of the Army
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post by obriendavid » Thu May 29, 2008 3:49 pm

It's OK Tim, Stuart and I are just having a friendly dig at Barry as friends tend to do neither of us are being serious.

Cheers
Dave
Post Reply