A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
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Darkman
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by Darkman » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:21 pm
As the title says, is there anyone who can point me towards the Battalion and Colonels colour.
I have a flag which is the cross of St George which has a crown in the middle surmounted by a crowned lion. Is this an earlier flag?
Any help appreciated
Thanks
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CoffinDodger
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by CoffinDodger » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:50 pm
Is this any good for you?
That's what I got from Reiver.
Jim
“I can assure you, Gentlefolk, they look better from a distance."
Jim O'Neill.
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flick40
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by flick40 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:56 pm
Some history on the Irish Foot Guards of whom Dorrington assumed command of in 1688. There is a speculative flag on the site as well.
http://www.historyreconsidered.com/inde ... -1660-1688
This is the standard description of the flag for the Irish Foot Guards (aka Dorrington) And the one the OP is seeking. If the flag in the above link has merit then the debate would be when did the flag change? When summoned to England for the defense and reformed or when they went to France?
Lord Dorrington's regiment, later Rooth or Rothe, following the Treaty of Ryswick in 1698, was formed from the former 1st and 2nd battalions James II's Royal Irish Foot Guards (formerly on the Irish establishment) of Britain. Roth's regiment of former Foot Guards, whose official title in the 1690s was the King of England's Foot Guards; their flag was a red cross of St George with a crown in the centre surmounted by a crowned lion.
Joe
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Rebel
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by Rebel » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:08 pm
Jim's figures show exactly what my sources show. The main query seems to be as to the type of crown used (crown royal, crown imperial etc etc) - There are also many debates as to which harps are used in Irish flags...
Flick, the colour in Lee's article refers to the unit raised by Charles II some three decades before the point in question. I can clarify this with him though if needed.
- Mike.
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flick40
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by flick40 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:28 pm
colour in Lee's article refers to the unit raised by Charles II some three decades before the point in question
Correct, but when did the flag change is still the question. The world may never know. Perhaps shortly after James assumed the throne in 1685 or when the unit was reformed in England in 1688/9. Perhaps still when it was transplanted to France in 1691/2. But, if that is the flag of the Irish Guards created by Charles II of which Dorrington assumed command of in 1688 it is not inconceivable to think it was carried by the unit up until a certain point.
Why do I care, because I like vexillology.
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Rebel
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by Rebel » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:02 pm
Do You have Milne-Milne's "Standard's and Colours of the Army 1661-1881" ?
Lee's quote comes from Sibbald Scott but in his detailed study, and having use dthe same quote about yellow taffey MM states that there is no record at all of which devices or badges were on the standard. He also adds that Inchiquin's colonel's colour of the Confederate period had a red St.George's cross in a yellow upper canton. Will check with Lee anyway about his source for the design.
In any event when James acceded new colours would have been issued.
- Mike.
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Rebel
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by Rebel » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:19 pm
Have just re-checked Clifford Walton's History of the British Standing Army, and the good colonel states that on 23 April 1662 a warrant was issued at Westminster for the raising of "A regiment of our foot guards for Ireland" and that the warrant was effected in England, in other words the troops were Englishment deployed in Ireland and that the "Irish" predominance only arose following the Viceroyalty of Tyrconnell.
- Mike.