Wuttemberg Infantry WSS

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Tallardless
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Wuttemberg Infantry WSS

Post by Tallardless » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:48 pm

Can anyone provide uniform details please for

the Sternfels and Hermen Infantry Battalions (for Blenheim )

Google translation of C. P . Goldberg
reveals ;
The [infantry] wore a gray coat. Surcharges and camisole in facing colour, buff trousers, black hat, yellow borders, further details could be due to the lack of sources, not previously found."

Surcharges and camisole" :? Could this simply mean the coat cuffs and lining being of the same colour ?

If what colours for these battalions?


Dank meiner Herr :?:
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Post by flick40 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:32 pm

Modern definition of camisole; A camisole is a sleeveless undergarment for women, normally extending to the waist. The camisole is usually made of satin, nylon, or cotton. Adding 18th century to a google search turned up basically the same answer.
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Post by Dfogleman2 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:58 pm

I believe "camisol" means the waistcoat.
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Post by CoffinDodger » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:17 pm

Dfogleman2 wrote:I believe "camisol" means the waistcoat.
I prefer Flick's version. :lol:
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Post by danschorr » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:45 pm

Tallardless,

Could you provide the name of the C-P Golberg document from which you got the material? Also, it would be helpful if you could provide the words in German. I don't think surcharges is a correct uniform translation.

Thanks,

Dan
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Post by Tallardless » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:02 pm

Very Good :wink:

An Austrian friend has kindly translated this as
"The [infantry] wore a gray coat. Coat cuffs in the facing colour, buff colour trousers, black hat, yellow borders. Further details couldn't be found yet, due to lack of sources."

Warflag website has a reconstructed standard

However I’d still appreciate further WSS Wurrtemberg uniform and service detail.

Can anyone point me to some sources please? :)
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Post by Tallardless » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:07 pm

Dan

Bitte, gerne geschehen

"Die Mannschaft trug den grauen Rock. Aufschläge und Kamisol in Abzeichenfarbe, Hose lederfarben, Hut schwarz, Borten gelb, Nähere Einzelheiten konnten, der fehlenden Quellen wegen, bisher nicht gefunden werden."

"Aufschläge " is basically the thick bit at the end of the arms of a coat for example - would that be "cuffs". Also the German says "buff-coloured trousers" (rather than buff to avoid confusion with leather trousers - although I suppose in those days they didn't have fake leather anyway…)

The second part of the sentence is (in the German version) grammatically not correct. However, I would read it as: "further details couldn't be found yet, due to lack of sources."

That said I'm happy that the translatoion provides me with pretty much all but the facing colours
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Post by Tallardless » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:42 pm

Dan

Are these Wurrtemberg uniforms avilable in published plates or secondary sourse you are aware of please ?

Thanks

Adrian
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Post by danschorr » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:02 pm

Adrian,

There are no illustrations of these two regiments that I know of. Aufschläge is indeed cuffs, but could also mean facing colours which would include the coat lining. I'm afraid that none of the material that I have mentions the facing colours for these units.

I am curious about the source of the C-P Golberg quote. Could I get the title of the source from which you took it? None of the Golberg material that I have mentions these two units.

Dan
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Post by Motorway » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:29 pm

Dfogleman2 wrote:I believe "camisol" means the waistcoat.
I believe you are right.
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Post by Tallardless » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:57 pm

Dan

My source such as it is a scattering of printed German text ton the troops at Blenheim that a friend gave me 20 years ago. I think it is from some German Military periodical of the 1980’s?

Page 46 as translated by me is as follows:-

C. P. Goldberg
Hochstadt 13. Aug. 1704 The uniforms of the armies involved (V)
Duchy of Wurttemberg

1. Infantry

As translated and provide earlier in this thread above

Lieb und Grenadier Regt of Foot
2 Bat . Losses [these are then quantified in detail but uniform not identified]]

Regiment of Foot Hermen
1 Bat., Uniform and losses not identified

Regiment of Foot Sternfels
1 Bat, Losses (these are then quantified in detail) [uniform not identified]

Then the remainder of the page deals with Horse and Dragoons. Finally it quotes the following sources (which I have not translated)

1. Stadlinger, L J: Gesschichte des Wurttebergischen Kriegswesens, Stuttgart 1856.
2. Dr.Wijn,J.W. Het staatsche Leger, Teil VIII , Band 1 1702 – 1705. s’Gravenhage 1956.
3. Knotel – Sieg : Handbuch der Uniformkunde. Hamburg 1959
4. Belaubre, J : Les Triomphes de Loius xiv. Selbstverlag 1970 ff

The leaves I have a wealth of other detail from other contingents at the battle. Thought much of it today has been subsequently repeated elsewhere. For example the Guards standard on Warflag. :!:

For example CS Grant mentions the Guards Regt in his book but intriguingly notes they had yellow facings :?:

In time maybe we’ll find out some more. Probably after I’ve painted the figures for my Blenheim Allied Army only to find they’re wrong (such is life)
:wink:
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