proper proportion Anglo-Dutch?

[Captain of Dragoons]

What do you need for a proper proportion Anglo-Dutch
Army for the LoA/WSS period

How about a detached corps of the following;

Infantry
1 x Dutch Brigade (3 Dutch Battalions, 1 Danish Battalion in Dutch pay)
1 x Dutch Brigade (3 Dutch Battalions)
1 x Dutch Scots Brigade (3 Scots Battalions in Dutch pay)
1 x English Brigade (4 English Battalions)
1 x Prussian Brigade (3 Prussian Battalions in English pay)

Dragoons
1 x English Brigade (2 Regiments of 3 sqns each)
1 x Dutch Brigade ( 3 Regiments of 3 sqns each)

Cavalry
1 x English Brigade (3 Regiments totaling 6 to 8 sqns)
1 x Dutch Brigade (3 Dutch Regiments and 1 Danish Regiment - 12 to 15
sqns)
1 x Dutch Brigade (2 Regiments totaling 4 or 5 sqns)
1 x Prussian Brigade (Heavys - 2 Regiments of 3 sqns each)

Artillery
2 x English Batteries
2 x Dutch Batteries

Reserve (Any wargamer is going to want a Guard unit!!!!)
1 x Elite Brigade
including 1 x English Foot Guards Bn
3 x Dutch Foot Guards Bn's
1 x Danish converged Grenadier Bn (in English pay)

1 x sqn of English Horse Guards
3 x sqns of Dutch elite cavalry

Is the proportion right for a Anglo-Dutch Army in the WSS?

Edward

[barr7430]

Looks like a fine army to command Edward!

Nice balance. The only point I would offer is perhaps on the inclusion of the English Guard Cavalry. I think there was an ordnance during this period which prevented the 'Household' cavalry units from serving outside England. I don't think they went to Flanders during this period at all.
Maybe others could comment on this

cheers

B

[Mats]

Nice list Edward! It seems just right for the LoA period. A minor detail: a thing I'd consider for the WSS period is swapping the Danish infantry in Dutch pay for Swiss or Swedes and the Danish cavalry in Dutch pay for Germans or Swedes.

For flavour, one of the Dutch Guards batallions could be Nassau-Friesland (see http://www.davidimrie.pwp.blueyonder.co ... esland.htm ) and you could consider swapping the English Horse Guards squadron for a squadron of the Gardes te Paard (Dutch Horse Guards).

My 2 cents!

Mats

[pabblo41]

British Life Guards did not fight outside Great Britain or Ireland during the period (did from 1740's onwards, British Army commanded by George II , last British Monarch to command a field army).

Horse Guards (Blues - not an official Guard regement at this time) did in the LOA but not WSS.

As stated previously could use Dutch Gd du Parde or Guard du Corps in stead.

Or could use the wargamer's prerogative ignore history and have them anyway.

[Captain of Dragoons]

Thanks gentlemen for responding.

I will drop the English Horse Guards from the order of battle but I may included the Oxford Blues. I like Barry's pictures of that regiment for the earlier period.

barry for the WSS, even though the Blues did not serve in Flanders did they still have blue coats or did thet switch to red like line regiments of Horse.

I always thoght that the Swiss fought for the French. I know Marlborough had small contingents from the smaller German States. I'm keeping my Danish foot but I may have to add a 3 to 4 battalion brigade made up of German and Swiss units.

Good thing this is a life long hobbie. It is going to take a long time to raise and paint such a force. I still need to think of a French force.

I'll have to start of with a couple of Brigades of horse and foot from both sides. I'll be able to fight advance guard and rear guard actions.

Any ideas on a cross roads in Flanders that were fought over and vastly important for lines of communications, etc. I have to design a battlefield for my wargame table I am going to have in study (table = 8 by 4).

cheers

and thanks for the advice.

Edward

[Guest]

Hi Edward,

The Swiss regiments in Dutch pay during the WSS were:

- Lochmann (later Hirzel, Dohna-Ferrassière, Tscharner)
- Capol (later Schmid de Grüneck)
- Tscharner (later May)
- Tscharner (later Monmillion, Sturler)
- Saconnay (later Mestral)
- Albemarle
- Diesbach
- Muralt (later Chambrier)

Some of these had been in French service indeed, but changed paymaster after the peace of Rijswijk in 1697.

Hope this helps!

Mats

[barr7430]

Those bloody Switzers!

Sans Argent- Sans Suisses!

[pabblo41]

The Oxford Blues always wore blue coats. They even do today as part of the Hosehold Cavalry (For tourists only on ceremonial duty, as the reg is now a combined unit called the Blues & Royals).

In LOA took part in a (sucidal) charge at one battle and went through a lot of French cavalry before they were stopped. (Started a tradition for British cavalry )

[barr7430]

Pabblo, which action was this?

[pabblo41]

Hi Barry

I will have to check the book over the weekend as LOA actions/battles are a bit before the period's I have knowledge of.

Main interest is 7YW/WAS followed by WSS, and Napelonic, lots of battles in Germany during 7YW, similar to WSS actions in Flanders involving British (including a Guards Brigade commanded by a General Julius Caeser), Hanover, Hesse plus other minor German states, and a small Prussian corps(including 5 squdrons of Prussian 5th Deaths Head Hussars), all commanded by the Erprinz of Hess Kessel against the French. Most famous battle is Minden, but there are several other actions which were larger than this. My favorite is Warburg, where all the British/Allied cavalry commanded by The Marquis of Garnby (also CO of the Blues who were at the action, and who's uniform he wore), charged the French position and swept all before them to win the battle, and he retained control of the British Cavalry too. (They were probably at their best during this period, well mounted led and controlled) .

[pabblo41]

Hi Barry

The action was between Waldeck and Luxembourg, late (19 or 23) Sept 1691 at Leuze where Waldeck was crossing the river La Catoir to go into winter quarters. Luxembourg caught his rear guard with 28 Squadrons of Cavalry (including units from th Maison Du Roi).

The British Life Guards (not the Horse Guards, but surprised at this as William was not commanding the army, so might have been the Horse Guards) countercharged and allowed the army to get away.

One trooper of the Life Guards got so close to Luxembourg that he had to fight him.

For this action Louis XIV gave the Grenadiers of the M du R that fought in the action a special medal and standard for their stirling performance.

Hope this means something to you.

Thanks

[seamus bradley]

Edward

I wonder if your original list is a bit top heavy, lots of high quality hard hitting troops with little in the way of more average troops? Reading John Childs' book on the LOA there appears to be a propensity to mix bridges up, Dutch, English and Germans; whereas in the WSS the brigades and indeed whole wings seemed to be of one nationality (e.g. Ramillies with the Dutch playing down the left and the English down the right, no doubt lobbing high balls into the German centre forward - sorry ) If you added some Kries or even Imperial (austrian) troops to the mix it might be more interesting??

The Dutch corps at Eckeren comprised Dutch national troops and a range of German regiments that included some from Mecklenberg-Schwerin, Sachs-Gotha, and Celle (Hanover). These are not only attractive and colourful to paint but perhaps make the force a bit more balanced?

Incidently, there was a detached Dutch corps in Upper Germany during 1703 and 1704 which joined Marlborough for his campaign in Bavaria. It was under the command of General Goor and contained approximately a half a dozen battalions and the equivalent cavalry (haven't got the details in front of me). Add this to Imperialist and other Germans you again get a very interesting but, of course, more brittle force.

Rgds

[Anonymous]

One trooper of the Life Guards got so close to Luxembourg that he had to fight him.

Who is defending himself with his cane !

[Captain of Dragoons]

seamus,

Yes perhaps the army is top heavy but "his grace the Duke" wants a good covering force to screen the seige.

I agree about the Germans.

The John Childs book, is that one on Louis XIV at war

cheers

Edward

[seamus bradley]

Edward

Apologies for the delay in replying. I take your point about His Grace wanting a quality force covering the siege, but I can't help but feel something a little more brittle would be more fun You could always send a few English and Dutch chaps out from the trenches if the covering force was getting into trouble.

The John Child's book I referred to is the one entitled "The Nine Years War and the British Army 1688-97". Excellent work, but a look at Amazon shows copies starting at £115!!!! I think the one about Louis XIV is by John A. Lynn and entitled "Louis XIV at War"? I may have missed something more recent by John Childs but the only new thing I can find in Amazon (as I write) is forward notice of a book by him on the Williamite wars in Ireland, due out in 2007.


Best Regards