"English" uniforms 1672

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paintermeister
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"English" uniforms 1672

Post by paintermeister » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:21 pm

Greetings, long time worshipper at the altar of Hilton here. Owner and frother of BLB2 minus toys. Have dabbled with 15mm GNW back in the day and considered a few new 28mm units to start with there. Recently a bag of " Glory of the Sun" figures were thrust into my hand by my local dealer. "Go on sonny, have a few... just to try" and so now I have been "convinced" to do a few units of "English" for 1672 Franco-Dutch War. So far my research has been BLB2, here (found the list of English units thanks) and a couple of blogs, the creators of which I think post here too- Thanks chaps!

So.....faced with a war that seems to have little known info uniform (bar for the French) and flag wise what's a chap to do?

Seems to me I have been sold a pup. The English are actually Scots fighting for the French. No offence.

I found a pic of some facing colours for jackets which showed white or yellow facings but which belong to which unit and what chance have I of finding the correct flags?

On my painted test mini I went for yellow trousers (will be repainted red) and white stockings.

Nco/officer sashes would most likely be what colours?

Or is this war just a fudgers paradise?

My kinda period if it is :wink:

All help and advice appreciated

Pip,pip
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Sir William
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Re: "English" uniforms 1672

Post by Sir William » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:52 am

Well Bloody Hell!

I just spent almost an hour composing a very detailed response to your query with links, notes, sources, etc., then lost the whole thing right before I posted it when a storm started here.

So, here's the short version and if you'll PM me with your e-mail address I'll be glad to send you the sources and documentation.

Monmouth's Royal English Regiment (multiple battalions at various times). I would clothe them in gray with blue facings as we have good documentation that they were in that uniform after the Rhineland campaign, specifically in 1679 on parade. For a flag (or flags) I would think something like the flags carried by James Foot Guards at a later period, but with Charles II's cipher.

Douglas Scots were originally formed for service in France, are considered part of the ancestral tree from the Hebron Regiment in the TYW through to the Royal Scots. René Chartrand has depicted their uniform in 1669 as red faced white and there are numerous published versions of Hebron's flags from the TYW and the Eighty Years War against Spain. I would use this uniform and probably update the Hebron flags.

Hamilton's Irish also included the remnants of Roscommon's Irish (Dillon). It's questionable whether they would wear their traditional red at this early date, and could be depicted in gray with colored facings. For flags I would use a variation on Roscommon's flags shown in Mark Allen's WI article in issue 54.

The most reliable OB that we have found is in the Marburg Digital Archive. It is a map done by the premier cartographer and engineer to the French Court of the battle of Enzheim done by an actual witness to the battle, Sebastien Beaulieu de Pontault.

http://www.digam.net/image.php?file=dok ... jpg&b=1200

This map shows 7 total formations, 3 labeled Monmouth, 2 labeled Hamilton, and 1 each for Douglas and Churchill. Two things, Turenne was known to "create" units to fill tactical roles, and the French sources are going to name proprietary Colonels that were "known". I suspect that the 3 attributed to Monmouth are probably the re-organized remnants of his battalion, Skelton's battalion, Vaughan's battalion and Lockhart's battalion. Churchill had already received his French commission by this time (March of 1674), and the battalion attributed to him is probably Lord Peterborough's (who resigned over the affair) mixed with the "volunteer" recruits that he took from the Guards members who were re-called to England. The 2 battalions attributed to Hamilton are probably his own and Roscommon's.

So, there you go Sir, and I would paint them and enjoy them until (or if ever) another reliable source is discovered that contradicts the above.

Regards;

Bill
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barr7430
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Re: "English" uniforms 1672

Post by barr7430 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:14 pm

Welcome Dave! Nice to have you on these Boards. 8)
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paintermeister
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Re: "English" uniforms 1672

Post by paintermeister » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:48 pm

You say that now.......


Still, I am pleased to be starting my first BLB2 forces after years of frothing at the galleries. How far it will go is anyone's guess. At the moment trying to limit purchases to North Star's 1672. Will probably use Warfare Minis soon for a bit of variety.

Must stop looking at the Dixon site....


Have ordered my 60x60mm bases so desist with this hex mullarky. it just won't do!

Looks great though.

Pip,pip
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Re: "English" uniforms 1672

Post by barr7430 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:54 pm

Alas, the hex mallarkey will continue unabated in order merely to twiddle with your cranial cavity and induce OCD type thought streams which will keep you awake at night or turning the light on to write things down on scraps of paper at the side of your four poster.... oops did I say that??? :shock:
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Re: "English" uniforms 1672

Post by quindia » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:29 pm

You're not alone, Dave - I had just bought into the 45x50mm bases when Mr Hilton started the 60x60mm ones... luckily, BLB works with virtually any basing... even the silly hexes (though I am looking forward to seeing more of these too).
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