More Plastic figures any one intrested

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EvilGinger
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More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by EvilGinger » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:35 pm

I have an interest in gaming this period on a low level focusing on either small actions or on small parts of larger actions using Company, Battalion or equivalent sized units built on either a 1:1 or 1:5 man to figure ratio this requires a lot of figures as a company in the nine years war seems to have averaged around a hundred other ranks with cavalry being about sixty other ranks to the troop.

I am aware of the variation in numbers but to help estimate how many figures I am going to need to run a game about trying to command a small part of a battle line & make it look a visual spectral then it works. The flaw in my plan is that I am of rather limited means and can't really afford the several hundred pounds each of very lovely Dixon, Warfare & Ebor figures I need for this though I am trying to win the lottery :D very hard. So I am forced to resort to Plastics my problem is that I feel we need more especially the infantry.

I am considering submitting a proposal to wargames factory for a box of 24-36 rank and file which could be used to produce generic rank and file musketeers grenadiers & dismounted dragoons in either a firing line or marching parts for both included, I hope, to be suitable for 1680-1700 and would want to know if I could generate any support for this proposal & other helpful suggestions form this very supportive forum. I would also hope that these would compliment the correct the defects in the existing Wargames Factory WSS box.

I would want them to be mixable with command figures form the metal ranges I mentioned in my preamble. What do you think? or do I have to take up mugging old ladies to support my habit?


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Re: More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by Redmist1122 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:27 pm

Count me in!!!
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Re: More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by Sir William » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:56 pm

Ginger,

My honest opinion, at least in the foreseeable future? Start checking out the "old ladies" and looking for deals. I have submitted preliminary artwork for exactly what you describe, both as a full box set and as mini-sprues that could be sold individually, and both to former management and current. I have also submitted artwork and sprue layouts, again to both teams, for artillery, either by the set or by the sprue. I have had discussions with current management about proceeding, even to discussing their ND agreement if we do, and still no action.

I do think they might eventually add to the WSS range, but I seriously doubt that they will make modifications necessary for the NYW; they chose consciously not to do so with their Cavalry set. As many know, I was involved in both the research and somewhat in the QC process on the original Infantry set (although it had already gone to tooling before "we" were given a chance for final QC, hence the swords and a few other minor problems). On the Cavalry set, even though much documentation had been gathered and offered to then "new" management, they made a conscious decision to send the set to tooling before releasing sprue renderings to any of the people who had been assisting them, either through their Forum of backstage.

I will continue to offer support to Wargames Factory, in whatever capacity they choose to seek it, and will abide by any and all terms and conditions that they wish to present me with. However, I personally have decided to drop WF as an ongoing project. I have already "donated" the very few painted figures that I completed to a local friend with a WSS collection. In the very near future I will be listing a "for sale" ad for all of my remaining boxed sets (quite a lot) at a significant savings. Look for the ad to appear here (in the appropriate Forum section), on TMP and probably on Bartertown.

My collection includes 12+ boxes of Infantry, 7 of WF Cavalry and 7 of Warlord's ECW Cavalry (which make excellent early Bavarian and Imperialist cuirassiers for the Marsaglia period). If an individual or group wishes to buy it all (including some spare sprues and bits, including over 100 floppy hats from WF and Warlord), then we're talking about $300 usd for everything, plus actual shipping. That's 50% of retail. If I have to parcel it out, it will probably be closer to 65-70% of retail plus shipping, possibly more if I have to resort to eBay.

My apologies to Barry for basically describing a "for sale" ad in this manner, just a "heads up" for those that may be interested. I will be rounding it all up, re-boxing loose bits, and listing this formally probably by next week at the latest.

Regards;

Bill
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Re: More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by Sir William » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:35 am

Gentlemen;

I have now posted a "proper" ad in the Marketplace section of the Forum. Thank you for your indulgence.

Regards;

Bill
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Re: More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by EvilGinger » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:34 am

Sir William I am sorry you have had a bad experience with Wargames factory, WF, & thank you for your advice as it would seem I will have to brush the debris off my high level Badgering skills & employ them on WF. It would also be nice to see what you proposed as I can't find it on WF forums. Though I did post in support of your special sprue request.

Any one else got any comment or advice, I really dont want to have to resort to mugging old ladies the local ones are all rather fierce :wink: .

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Re: More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by Sir William » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:45 pm

Ginger,

I hope my comments have not been misinterpreted. I have not had a "bad experience" with WF, in fact, the overall experience has been good.

My disappointment is with the fact that WF seem to have left a lot of "orphaned" ranges out there and don't seem to have a high priority for picking them back up. As examples: only two sets for the Zulu Wars (and those didn't even include any command figures); only four sets for the Dark Ages (and much of the tooling for the weapons/heads/shields sprue used the same digital files), to date only two sets for the WSS with little displayed interest in expanding on the Infantry or adding Artillery; their recent Persians (which show great promise) but may not make it past the basic Infantry and Cavalry.

Right now there seems to be a heavy bias towards Sci-Fi, Zombies and 40K type of sets, although to be fair, their recent Samurai appear to be gathering some steam and they have announced additional sets already. Part of the argument that I get when talking with management at WF is that "sales of the existing WSS don't justify expansion", which may well be true according to their business model. However, a bit like the chicken and the egg analogy, we all know that if you don't offer a complete range (at least all of the basics) then gamers won't continue to buy (assuming that they make a serious start to begin with).

As opposed to Warlord, the Perry's and Victrix (just to name three), who are all building on their existing ranges while still adding new product, WF seem to want to "compartmentalize" their ranges. Introduce a little, see if the shops and gamers snap it up, then decide to either develop the range or move on. I don't fault them for this business model, especially in this economy, but I can't personally support it any longer. I liken what they have produced to a modern version of the old Spencer-Smith 18th century range of plastics (now metal from Peter Johnston). Ronald Spencer-Smith produced and sold thousands, if not tens of thousands, of basic rank & file figures, and the gamers who were serious about building armies bought their specialty figures from Stadden or Suren or Minifigs "S" range or Holger Ericksson or whatever. This is not necessarily a "bad" approach, but today's gamers are very spoiled by the available choices out there and tend to stick with what they like, once they find it.

WF have also used the cost of tooling (which is very high for injected plastics) and their production lead time from China as reasons why they can't be more "adventurous" in their developments. I would remind them that all of the UK manufacturers of plastics are using Renedra and this has also created severe bottlenecks in production. And yet they continue to roll out new product. Another missed opportunity (my opinion only) is that they have shown no interest in making their figures compatible with the major metal ranges, nor have they shown any interest in supplementing their product with locally-produced metals. This latter option has worked very well for Warlord, the Perry's and Immortal, and seems to be helping Conquest Games. Part of WF's argument in this matter is that they sculpt digitally rather than with actual sculpts. However, the technology exists to render 3D models of the digital renders that could be cast in pattern molds that are then used for creating master molds. Since the mold costs are so much cheaper for this technology, they could add Artillery, specialty Command figures, even corrected weapons or additional lower torso's/legs that could then be cast out of either metal or polymer resins.

At any rate, I wish them all good fortune. I think they had a good model to start with, and a good idea with the Liberty & Union League, and only time will tell if they capitalize on what they have started. As for me, I have other old projects to finish and a new one to start that I'm really excited about, and simply don't care to "wait and see" anymore.

Regards;

Bill
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Re: More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by EvilGinger » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:41 pm

Thank you again for a thoughtful reply Bill, I seem to be of a vintage with you to be honest & whilst I never got involved with Spencer Smith Miniatures I do recall buying & painting battalion after battalion of 15mm Peter Lang stuff in my wild youth armed only with both volumes of L&F Funkens lace wars & my schoolboy French.

I loved them even & especially because you had to paint all the details on yourself. I do understand business models & such, I am self employed, but have never found a marking bod who understands the "Hobby" or who couldn't do with some sharp lessons taught by granddads trench raiding axe for that matter. I find the problem with marketing is it complicates a simple process which is find out what the customer wants & doesn't have & then give it to them for a price they are prepared to pay. The only complication is that some times the customer doesn't know they want it yet :!:

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Re: More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by yar68 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:00 pm

Ginger,

Why not go smaller still and get 15mm or 10mm figures, for 15mm you can get one infantry unit (21 figs) for under £10 and you'll have a few figures left over.

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Re: More Plastic figures any one intrested

Post by EvilGinger » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:05 am

A good thought Ray & I also game in 15mm & 20mm for other periods & intend to do some forces fro BLB2 in 15mm Essex & Dixon, but I want to use 25mm for this as there are some splendid figures about in that scale & they feel right for what is at least some of the time a skirmish game.

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