Jacobite units??

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yar68
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Jacobite units??

Post by yar68 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:19 pm

All hail my learned friends,

A question, I shall be painting up some regts that fought at the Boyne pretty soon, and wondered how you have made up the units of the following regts. Musketeer to pike ratio??

King James's Foot Guards - As English foot 18 musketeer figures including command and pike.
Earl of Clanrickarde - ?
Earl of Antrim - As English ??
Marquis de Boisseleau - ?
Lord Bellow's - ?
Lord Grand Prior's -?
Lord Louth's - ?

All answers on the back of a postcard, if not please post here instead!
Cheers
Ray
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by quindia » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:54 am

Ray there is very detail info in McNally's (Rebel's) Battle of the Boyne book by Osprey. On page 48 there is a break down of the number of officers, troops, firearms, and pikes listed for all of those units...

For units with relatively few pikes (i.e. Antrim's is something close to 1:10) I plan on fielding them as all musket. For units that actually reach or surpass 1:2 (Clanrickarde), I'm going to model the central stand as pikes, along the lines of my ECW collection - I believe we will even have rules for such units in the Jacobite supplement. For units in between I will use the standard BLB system with a marker of pikes placed behind the three stands of shot.
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by Rebel » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:55 am

Ray,

just to back up Clarence's post, the figures I quote in CAM 160 are taken from the official French correspondence.

Cheers,


Mike.
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by BobR » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:10 pm

Louth Regiments in the Irish Jacobite Army
Diarmuid Murtagh
Journal of the County Louth Archaeological Society
Vol. 13, No. 1 (1953), pp. 8-15
(article consists of 8 pages)
Published by: County Louth Archaeological and History Society
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/27728834

The above reference states that in April of 1689 the regiments of Louth, Gormanston and Bellew had more pikes than muskets and a lot of the muskets were not serviceable.

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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by barr7430 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:55 pm

Aah, Bob, now that IS interesting as it sort of backs up my new mechanisms for the more pike than musket situation in Ireland. These units are mentioned quite often in accounts, wonder what less well equipped units were carrying??
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by Rebel » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:12 pm

But chaps, that is of course before the French kit begins to arrive in earnest....
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by barr7430 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:34 pm

that's ok though. Many of the scenarios we are including are for the pre French phase
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by yar68 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:42 pm

Barry,
I'd like to have my units the same size and make-up as yours and Clarence's, so when we playtest the scenarios were all running from the same page. Can you share some of make up of the regts you've painted and are planning to paint?

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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by barr7430 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:34 am

no probs Ray.
So far I have painted:

Jacobites

1 battalion of the Footguards. This is a kind of talisman/display unit and is on hexes (roughly equivalent to a 60 x 60mm square in size): 3 bases with 6-8 models per base to create the density. Half hex with 4 pikes behind centre hex. Will count as an 18 model unit with pikes.

1 battalion of Foot - generic at the moment(Celtic cross flag). 3 bases of musketeers (1 put between 6-8 models per base but they will each count as an ordinary fighting stand of 6) pike base at back.

1 battalion of recruits - ALL Pikes 3 stands each with 6-7 models per base

1 battalion of recruits - 2 musket stands of 7-8 + central stand of standards and pikes - will count as a 2 stand unit when shooting but get some of the new bonuses in combat.

1large dismounted dragoon regiment - 3 stands each of 5 models - Dongan's

1 French Foot unit - currently flagged as Piemont but I will change the command stand and use it for Ireland (maybe even as Huguenots if I drop the pikes)

1 further unit under way following the standard model above(seconed description) this will be Antrim's.

Williamites:

I have regiment Funen 3 bases ALL musket 6-8 models per base
Both Clarence and I have the Garden til Fods (as Funen for organization)
Clarence has done Sjaellandske, same organization. Toggy has done Prinds Georg same organization.
I have the Earl of Bath's

Toggy has also finished the Coldstream Guards but I don't think they served in Ireland. (Have to check that)


On the stocks: A battalion of Zurlauben(French-German), a battalion of Williamite recruits inspired by Kris's unit in grey. so, it's all coming along!
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by quindia » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:52 am

Ray, all of my units will be three stands (50x50mm) of 5-6 models, but will count as 18 for game purposes. Occasionally I might even end up with a stand of four models if I've modeled some particular vignette or additional bit of scenery (example coming up this weekend) - but they will still count as 6 for game purposes. So far, none of my units have included pikes because the Danes didn't have them in Ireland (in fact most of William III's army seemed to lack pikes, save for the English and Irish), but when I get to units that did have pikes, I'll be adding a stand of 5-6 as standard BLB rules.

Right now for Jacobites I am planning:

Foot Guards (2 battalions, each of 3 stands of muskets +1 rear stand of pikes)
Antrim's (1 battalion, 3 stands all musket)
Clanrickarde's (1 battalion, 3 stands with the central being pike)*
Boisseleau's (2 battalions, same as Clanrickarde's)*

* count as two stands for musketry, but gain a bonus in melee

This might change, but that's what I have on paper for my initial infantry goal. When I reach that goal, I'll look at expanding my force with a small French brigade (maybe only for 'what if' scenarios, but Zurlaben will certainly be on that list) and some of the dreadfully armed all pike units that may have taken the field during the early phase of the war.

For my Williamites -

Dutch
Gardes te Voet (3 battalions)
Brandenburg
Nassau-Saarbrucken-Ottweiler

Danish
Garden til Fods
Sjaellandske
Jydske
Fyske

Huguenot
De la Meloniere
Caillemotte
Cambon

English
Sir John Hanmer (the only Williamite unit on this list with pikes)
Last edited by quindia on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by yar68 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:19 pm

Thanks for sharing the info guys, that now gives me my plan of attack!!!
Ray

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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by Mats » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:18 pm

quindia wrote: Gardes te Voet (2 or 3 battalions, still not sure how many were at the Boyne as sources seems to differ)
All Dutch sources state three battalions Clarence.

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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by quindia » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:29 pm

Thanks, Mats! Three battalions of dead hard guard units it is!
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by barr7430 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:32 pm

This one would be good to bottom out finally as I have seen recent argumentation to say it was 2 + companies of cadets, who were themselves added to the 2 regular battalions...

any nibbles on that hook gents???
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Re: Jacobite units??

Post by BobR » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:01 pm

I have always thought that it was two battalions of Gardes de Voet in Ireland. One with a company of officer cadets and one with a company of grenadiers. Wasn't the other battalion in London with a company of some sort of lifeguards attached instead of grenadiers or cadets?
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