Danish cavalry in Ireland

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
toggy
Major General
Major General
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:56 pm
Location: Lanarkshire

Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by toggy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:30 pm

Following on from the discussion on the "Dismounted Dragoons" thread,just wondered if anyone knows if the Danish cavalry were armoured or not.

Bob
We are not retreating - we are advancing in another direction. Macarthur, Douglas
Dfogleman2
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:45 pm

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by Dfogleman2 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:19 pm

I am pretty sure they were not. Dan Schorr might chime in, though, with something more definitive. An eyewitness in Ireland describes them with grey coats but does not mention armour.

They wore breastplates in the WSS. None of the "national" regiments wore armour in the Scanian War. I believe the Danish horse in Ireland were drafts from these regiments.
User avatar
obriendavid
General of the Army
General of the Army
Posts: 2599
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by obriendavid » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:35 pm

The Sapherson book only mentions three small Danish cavalry units each being 3-4 troops, about 200 men each but makes no mention of them wearing armour.
The Condray book on the Danes relates to the WSS and only mentions officers wearing breastplates.
The Golberg book, Bemalungsangaben which again covers the WSS doesn't mention any armour.

If the Sapherson book is accurate then the small size of the Danish cavalry regiments might be another reason why they were overthrown by the Irish Lord Dongan's dragoon regiment which is supposed to numbered around 700 men.
Cheers
Dave
Churchill
General
General
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:49 pm

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by Churchill » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:25 pm

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
obriendavid
General of the Army
General of the Army
Posts: 2599
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by obriendavid » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:38 pm

Churchill wrote:Dave,
The 700 figure I gave in your Irish dragoon thread was for both dragoon regiments that of O'Brien's & Dongan's.
Ray.
Ray, the 700 figure I mentioned is taken from Captain George Gaffney's diary kept between 1689-90 and this was only for Lord Dongan's dragoon regiment of 12 troops. He fought with them at the Boyne where he was killed so I assume he had a good idea what he was talking about.

In John Kinross book on 'The Boyne and Aughrim' also lists the Roll Call of the Jacobite Army Oct 1689 where at that point Dongan's regiment is only listed with 10 troops and a total of 569 men.

Another good book is 'Illustrations, historical and genealogical, of King James's Irish army list, 1689' by John D'Alton 2nd edition was published in 1855 and gives a good biography of all the officers involved with the regiment and it lists 12 troops.
Cheers
Dave
wdrenth
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:57 am
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by wdrenth » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:55 am

If I am not mistaken, these three regiments were formed with drafts taken from regular Danish regiments of horse.

According to the army estimates for the year 1691, each of the three regiments was composed of 6 troops with 270 men in total.

cheers,
Wienand
User avatar
obriendavid
General of the Army
General of the Army
Posts: 2599
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by obriendavid » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:39 pm

To get back to Bob's original post I've added a few pics on my blog which appear to show the Danish cavalry with breastplates but these could be for the WSS.
http://davestoybox.blogspot.co.uk/2012/ ... valry.html
Cheers
Dave
toggy
Major General
Major General
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:56 pm
Location: Lanarkshire

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by toggy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:48 pm

Dave,very nice illustrations.

It was the posting about the Danes being drawn from existing units that prompted the question, still doesn't seem to be a definitive answer so maybe will add a couple of armoured figures to the units when they're available.

Bob
We are not retreating - we are advancing in another direction. Macarthur, Douglas
User avatar
obriendavid
General of the Army
General of the Army
Posts: 2599
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by obriendavid » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:01 pm

Bob, also found this site which shows and mentions cavalry with armour, this is for the early GNW 1700. Don't know if this is of any use to you?
http://www.tacitus.nu/karoliner/armeer/ ... alleri.htm
Cheers
Dave
toggy
Major General
Major General
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:56 pm
Location: Lanarkshire

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by toggy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:08 pm

Another excellent site Dave
We are not retreating - we are advancing in another direction. Macarthur, Douglas
User avatar
obriendavid
General of the Army
General of the Army
Posts: 2599
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by obriendavid » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:12 pm

Bob, also found this info and from my reading it would suggest that they didn't have a cuirass before 1700. Your choice!

"Each cavalryman was to have an iron cuirass with breast and backplate, lined with linen. In the beginning of the 1700’s, however, the backplate was not always issued, and instead the breastplate was secured with a pair of crossbelts over the back. At the beginning of the war in 1701 only a few cavalry regiments were furnished with the cuirass.

In 1709, when all cavalry regiments were equipped with cuirass, they are described as lined with good Swedish leather and pique* cloth (edging in the regimental color. Officers had further edging in the button color), black varnished and provided with cross belts of leather covered with black varnished tin at the shoulders. They were suppose to be proof against sword and saber cuts. The Tøjhus Accounts for 1709 mention 5,000 cuirass with crossbelts and iron pots, which were quickly taken into use by the cavalry. In January 1711 the Tøjhus Accounts list a holding of 3,102 cuirass with crossbelts. All were gone by December."

Cheers
Dave
EvilGinger
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
Posts: 462
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:27 am
Location: Burton On Trent

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by EvilGinger » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:02 pm

Or if they did it was not in any sort of systematic manner being dependent on private purchase or the Colonels foible.

:evil: Ginger
toggy
Major General
Major General
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:56 pm
Location: Lanarkshire

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by toggy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:11 pm

Thanks guys, looks like it will just be an officer or 2 then.

Bob
We are not retreating - we are advancing in another direction. Macarthur, Douglas
danschorr
Major
Major
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:58 am

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by danschorr » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:53 pm

The pictures that Dave provided, as well as the text, come from a series of articles on the Danish Army in the WSS by Torstein Snorrason that originally appeared in the Danish magazine Chakoten. I was given permission to translate them and place them on my website from which Dave probably got them.

To answer the question whether or not the three Danish cavalry regiments in Ireland wore the cuirass, the answer is yes. Between 1680 and 1684 the cuirass, both front and back plate were again introduced. Depending on the unit, either both would be worn or just the front plate. For enlisted men, the cuirass was worn over the coat, for officers, probably under the coat.

Hope this helps.

regards,

Dan
toggy
Major General
Major General
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:56 pm
Location: Lanarkshire

Re: Danish cavalry in Ireland

Post by toggy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:57 pm

That Sir is very helpful, once again proving the worth of this excellent resource.

Just have to wait for the cuirassier to appear now.

Thanks again

Bob
We are not retreating - we are advancing in another direction. Macarthur, Douglas
Post Reply